Are you planning on dynoing the car and are u smg or stick?
For mods:
Underdrive pulley
RPI scoops, block-off plates
BMC Filters
Carbon filters deleted
All cat's deleted or gutted
Stock mufflers deleted
Exhaust system consists of only an X-pipe and two straight through Magnaflow race mufflers.
Will be receiving my Evolve-R tune tomorrow.
Will get 2 tunes with this; A tune to account for all of my mods and a tune the same except it retards the timing 4 degrees for when I use the nitrous.
__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming: "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!!"
It’s not as easy as one might think. I have to not just retard the ignition but also alter the torque calculations and limits.
It’s not that simple and if you just remove the ignition the system goes into limp.
I also have to be careful with the NOS because as the power increases with lowered ignition the system gets confused – how does the engine run lower ignition but the rpm rate acceleration is way higher!
While it might seem like I am not working on this I actually am and this type of tuning certainly doesn’t come under the normal 48 hour turn around time. This is a bit more challenging!
Despite your ramblings, air is homogeneous and turns corners relatively easily.
The nitrous/fuel mixture will separate and provide very uneven distribution between the outside and inside cylinders.
Unless you're a fluid dynamics engineer or fully aware of the micron size of the atomized fuel/nitrous for this specific nozzle, what is your basis of fact on your ramblings that the nitrous/fuel mixture will separate and provide uneven distribution??? The engineers at NX have ensured me this will not happen in the least. If you know more than the NX engineers I'm sure they'd appreciate your experience.
__________________
Evo Sport Powered!!
Power: Evo sport pulley, Evo sport headers, Evo sport sec 2,3,no cats, no resonators,K&n Typhoon, Powerchip Stage 3 custome tune(race map), 510rwhp(dont argue with me about this please)
Dyno Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrENsz5Aw0M
Suspension: H&R springs, H&R 12mm spacers all 4 corners
Looks Exterior: CF front chin spoiler, rear fenders rolled
Hey there STS-V.....er I mean rocket5979 checking in. lol Hopefully I can clarify a few points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF
In regards to the O2 sensor are you referring to the sensors in the exhaust system right after the primary cats? Will they still enable an effective reading even after I've gutted the primary cats? I guess they would still measure the O2 levels but would they measure the air to fuel ratio to determine a rich or lean condition? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to AFR but is this best measured in the induction system somewhere before it's ignited or after it's burned?
There should be a total of at least 4 O2 sensors. A set of 2 that are upstream of the cats and a set of 2 that are downstream of them. Each set performs a different function. The set pre-cat are what the ECU uses to monitor part throttle and idle AFR's. The set that are post-cat are what tells the ECU how efficient the catalyst system is or is not working (aka emissions).
AFR's are something that are measured in exhaust system after the mixture has burned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartek
USAF - Although i am unaware about the effectiveness of the factory O2 sensors and I'm also unaware of whether they are wideband or not.i can say I have installed an aftermarket wideband sensor in a previous nitrous car.
The sensor gets mounted in the exhaust piping and reads the exhaust for an accurate reading of the vehicles AFR. air to fuel ratio.
It is a great indication of how rich or lean your system is running- which can almost directly translate to the safety of the nitrous kit and/or how properly it's operating. I would also suggest having a method of reading it even if only for state of mind.
Cheers!
-Louie
The stock front (pre-cat) oxygen sensors are LSU 4.9 which are wideband sensors. The stock rear (post-cat) oxygen sensors are LSH 25 which are narrowband sensors. Unless Deno has a way to datalog the front sensors then he will not be able to gather the AFR data from that directly. But never fail, I have my own portable wideband datalogging system that I plan to attach to his car during initial pulls so it is no worry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiked
By two, I assume you mean ONE on each side (5-cyl) which is, of course, exactly what I meant.
Despite your ramblings, air is homogeneous and turns corners relatively easily.
The nitrous/fuel mixture will separate and provide very uneven distribution between the outside and inside cylinders.
I am not trolling, just trying to save your engine.
And you have no idea of what you are talking about. I have been a nitrous user for YEARS, about 12 to be exact. Have built many of them from scratch too. Ran them in plenty of cars from daily drivers to full race cars. Once the nitrous/fuel mixture has atomized and combined with the aircharge it will not automatically "fall out of the air" or "separate" as you seem to think. If you don't have any real experience with something then why try to speak about it? Since you are so set on your theory would you care to explain exactly WHY the nitrous/fuel mixture will separate? Please use scientific and engineering terms so that I can follow your exact meaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF
Unless you're a fluid dynamics engineer or fully aware of the micron size of the atomized fuel/nitrous for this specific nozzle, what is your basis of fact on your ramblings that the nitrous/fuel mixture will separate and provide uneven distribution??? The engineers at NX have ensured me this will not happen in the least. If you know more than the NX engineers I'm sure they'd appreciate your experience.
Everyone is a backyard engineer I guess. Too bad the thousands upon thousands of wet nitrous system users are going to blow their engines! We had better tell them quick; even though they have been doing it safely for decades. Let alone the fact that theory for nitrous use in ICB's has been a proven one for decades as well. For another point of reference, look at how the older TBI (throttlebody injection) early EFI systems worked. That's right! A single large fuel injector injecting fuel at a central point just before the intake manifold. That was an OEM design mind you; not some shadetree mechanic off of the street. I wonder why the fuel didn't drop out of the aircharge for them?
And yes I am coming off a little strong and it is entirely due to people who speak up about things as if an authority without really knowing a darned thing. If you don't know all about nitrous and admit it then I can respect that. But don't come into a thread an start throwing around statements that you can neither backup nor have any personal experience with besides a 5 minute Google search that netted 50% totally wrong info, 40% that is misunderstood, and 10% that is actually true provided that a context has been established. I have noticed that this has happened repeatedly on this forum with specific regard towards nitrous. Tons of fear-mongering without any real understanding to back it up. Leave it to the experts guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinB
Nice work!
IIRC, didn't the AWD Motorsports M5 with nitrous spray each individual throttle body?
They did do a wet direct port system with a wet nozzle plumbed directly to each throttlebody for a total of 10 nozzles. Direct port is a very nice option for ensuring perfect distribution and adjustability of nitrous/fuel to each cylinder but should only be reserved for larger shots of at least 200-1000hp. There is no need, and would actually be detrimental in some ways, to spray a 150 shot on a 10 cylinder engine with a direct port. The fuel jet orifices would have to be TIIIIINY to get your AFR's in line! That means a considerably higher chance of clogging if even a piece of debris the size of a grain of sand got into the system post solenoid. While filters can obviously help this, if you aren't careful then bad things could happen. Less nozzles for a given shot size means larger jets which leads to less chance of clogging.
__________________ -Robert-
2003 4.6 XLT Black Explorer,Built, blown, ported, cammed, and on and on...
2009 Pontiac G8 GT Stryker Blue, 402ci Stroker, Twin Turbo's, 230/240 Turbocam, Circle D Built 6L80E, Circle D 3000 Stall, and a few other things...
Last edited by rocket5979; 6th August 2012 at 06:39.
As a matter of fact, I am a front yard engineer with two engineering degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket5979
Too bad the thousands upon thousands of wet nitrous system users are going to blow their engines! We had better tell them quick; even though they have been doing it safely for decades. Let alone the fact that theory for nitrous use in ICB's has been a proven one for decades as well. For another point of reference, look at how the older TBI (throttlebody injection) early EFI systems worked. That's right! A single large fuel injector injecting fuel at a central point just before the intake manifold. That was an OEM design mind you; not some shadetree mechanic off of the street. I wonder why the fuel didn't drop out of the aircharge for them?
How many still use this? Wonder why? Were they getting 100+ BHP per liter?
Were the manifolds designed with specific curvatures and runner sizes to minimize the problem?
There is a lot of difference between an S85 and a 4G63.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket5979
And yes I am coming off a little strong and it is entirely due to people who speak up about things as if an authority without really knowing a darned thing. If you don't know all about nitrous and admit it then I can respect that. But don't come into a thread an start throwing around statements that you can neither backup nor have any personal experience with besides a 5 minute Google search that netted 50% totally wrong info, 40% that is misunderstood, and 10% that is actually true provided that a context has been established. I have noticed that this has happened repeatedly on this forum with specific regard towards nitrous. Tons of fear-mongering without any real understanding to back it up.
I guess my 50 years of building engines and transmissions, could not compare to your vast experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket5979
Leave it to the experts guys.
Apologies in advance.
I just had to say something in response to the silly insults above.
My original post was a sincere effort to help.
Let's not turn this into a flame war. No need to rebut this post.
I will NOT post in this thread again.
Certainly I do not wish to be devil's advocat.
My humble opinion is that joined forces MAY give better results.
Also high tempered attitudes MOST CERTAINLY do not help. Keep it cool folks and if you do not like someone's opinion dont get mad. Maybe he is indeed trying to help.
__________________
Porsche Gemballa Avalanche (4.3 litre), RSR 1600-RR - 1600 hp on race gas
Porsche Gemballa Gt600 - Carrera 4s compressor ( VF-Engineering ) 600 hp
Porsche Gemballa Cayenne Gt650-R. 650 hp
Ferrari 599 GTB Novitec Rosso SuperSport - 888 hp
Lamborghini Aventador LP-760 Mansory Edition - 754 hp
Aston Martin 1-77. V12 - 770 hp. No 57 out of 77
Bmw X3-F25 35i Xdrive M-Pack 380 hp - AC Schnitzer
Bmw M6-E63 Schnitzer 600 hp - Heavily modded
Last edited by gkinvest; 6th August 2012 at 18:53.
93Likes
Linear Mode
