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Porsche Gemballa Avalanche (4.3 litre), RSR 1600-RR - 1600 hp on race gas
Porsche Gemballa Gt600 - Carrera 4s compressor ( VF-Engineering ) 600 hp
Porsche Gemballa Cayenne Gt650-R. 650 hp
Ferrari 599 GTB Novitec Rosso SuperSport - 888 hp
Lamborghini Aventador LP-760 Mansory Edition - 754 hp
Aston Martin 1-77. V12 - 770 hp. No 57 out of 77
Bmw X3-F25 35i Xdrive M-Pack 380 hp - AC Schnitzer
Bmw M6-E63 Schnitzer 600 hp - Heavily modded
I did not realize you are the spokesman for the many in the forum.
It is not 'my' physics. It is the physics of Newton and Bernoulli.
I would rather let you go on believing in magic, than trying to teach a couple of semesters of physics/engineering.
Note: My 5HP max does not include the effect of higher flow air filters, or oversize electric fans adding free HP
..
Board members have nothing to gain from flame wars. In order to help each other I think a spirit of mutual understanding
is more beneficial. Ironies and insinuations should be avoided.
As my friend Eloy from RPI said I would also be very curious to read a VERY BRIEF analysis of those two semesters of physics teaching.
Folks, my humble opinion is that the truth is never in the far right or the extreme left. It is somewhere in the middle as all arguements
in life.
I would dare to put the hole subject of tuning under another perspective. Is the money we pay worth or the results we get are
ridiculous for what we pay.
Well, I will try to answer first. It depends. If 70-75 whp are worth 10-12k ( speaking for an S85 ) sure, why not.
If you consider on the other hand that if instead of BMW the badge said Hundai or something, then these mods would cost 2k.
You see, it is a matter of looking at the bottle. Is it half full or half empty ?
Board members have nothing to gain from flame wars. In order to help each other I think a spirit of mutual understanding
is more beneficial. Ironies and insinuations should be avoided.
As my friend Eloy from RPI said I would also be very curious to read a VERY BRIEF analysis of those two semesters of physics teaching.
Folks, my humble opinion is that the truth is never in the far right or the extreme left. It is somewhere in the middle as all arguements
in life.
I would dare to put the hole subject of tuning under another perspective. Is the money we pay worth or the results we get are
ridiculous for what we pay.
Well, I will try to answer first. It depends. If 70-75 whp are worth 10-12k ( speaking for an S85 ) sure, why not.
If you consider on the other hand that if instead of BMW the badge said Hundai or something, then these mods would cost 2k.
You see, it is a matter of looking at the bottle. Is it half full or half empty ?
George
If you ask my mother in law......which she thinks all of this is ridiculous, the purpose of the car is to get from point A to point B :P
I would like to add one thing. It is extremely easy to be a critic or a smart as@.
It is extremely difficult to produce positive results, whatever job you do in life.
It is even more difficult to improve what other bright minds ( Bmw engineers ) have accomplished.
So let's try to be a bit more cool with these guys who put their reputation on the line every day and have to prove to all of us that they are NOT elephants
but HOMOS SAPIENTES.
As long as all are happy with the money spent and performance-that's what counts I guess. My pet peeve is seeing the members who spend in the 2k range for plastic boxes that most tuners agree do nothing. Of course, don't forget the level 3 software needed to activate them.
Geez-I guess its good for the economy.
As long as all are happy with the money spent and performance-that's what counts I guess. My pet peeve is seeing the members who spend in the 2k range for plastic boxes that most tuners agree do nothing. Of course, don't forget the level 3 software needed to activate them.
Geez-I guess its good for the economy.
That "pet peeve" of yours has nothing to do with your post about how the engineering firm you spoke with said that the principle behind the RPI Scoops + kit is basically worthless for any real gains above 50-70MPH. I believe Eloy replied to it -- I'm curious to see the follow-up.
For the record, I've never made any claims about the Dinan intakes...
-b.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer
Here is what an engineering firm says:
The intake area behind the kidney area is only a high pressure point upto around 50-70mph. After that the natural aerodynamics push air over the grill onto the bonnet. Therefore at the higher speeds where it matters the area behind the kidneys becomes a low pressure area which is bad.
Combine that with a block off of the lower intake and you actually have a less efficient intake system.
As the speed increases the front bumper area becomes the high pressure area and the lower intakes draw in air naturally.
The reason why this system is popular is because of excellent marketing and dyno graphs done with a very weak fan. Testing is done without any signh of correction factors shown also. On independant machines the gains are actually closer to zero than even 1hp.
When I bought my M6 it was bone stock. Having adequate experience from racing I knew first hand that dynos and 1/4 mile runs are indicative but do not tell the hole story
due to multiple parameters involved.
I have a specific straight road, quiet and away from cops. So, I marked point A and point B. Not a specific distance like 1/4 mile or mile. Just A and B. Best I could do before moding the
car was 220 km from a standing start. After I finished all my mods ( for now ), I did 243. Measured with V-box.
What I want to point out is that mods work. I can't know the percentage each mod adds. Tune ? Intake ? Exhaust ? Headers ? Cams ? Pulley ? All together ???
When I bought my M6 it was bone stock. Having adequate experience from racing I knew first hand that dynos and 1/4 mile runs are indicative but do not tell the hole story
due to multiple parameters involved.
I have a specific straight road, quiet and away from cops. So, I marked point A and point B. Not a specific distance like 1/4 mile or mile. Just A and B. Best I could do before moding the
car was 220 km from a standing start. After I finished all my mods ( for now ), I did 243. Measured with V-box.
What I want to point out is that mods work. I can't know the percentage each mod adds. Tune ? Intake ? Exhaust ? Headers ? Cams ? Pulley ? All together ???
Just my 0.02 cents.
George
Hi George.
Since this thread is already branched out so many different directions, I don't mind veering a little more.
What is your feeling about ur Schrick Cams? I've heard other members who got them say that it showed no gain and if they could do it over again, they wouldn't have done the mod. What was your before and after impressions?
"Well, cams is a huge story. If Sal from Evolve is reading this, he will verify and elaborate further.
The only cams I am aware of, for the S85, are made by Schrick. It is a mod far from plug and play, since the least that MUST
be done to the car is a custom tune on the dyno. Further to what most tuners do, Vanos adjustments are required and multiple
small or big details in the doftware must be taken care of, in order for the cams to opperate correctly. VERY VERY few tuners around
the world know how to adjust engine's software to cams. Sal from Evolve is one of them.
Currently sold for 2200 $ from Turner Motorsport in USA.
The intake cams have 292 degrees duration and 12,2 valve lift, while the exhaust cams have 280 degrees duration and 12 lift.
The condition of the engine's head must be excellent, since the cam lobs opperate SO CLOSE to the valves that if a valve spring
is not in perfect condition, then the cam might hit the valve and then ....adios.
The installation is a long procedure, almost 5-6 hours and special tools are required.
Pros and cons.
If correctly tuned, the engine will deliver 18-22 crank horses more at 7800 rpm and -2 crank horses at 3000 rpm.
It is simple to understand that "fast road" cams. lose down low and gain as revs rise.
Speaking out of personal experience and many dyno runs, here it is what to expect.
My very own car equipped with the following :
1) ESS software stage II, further tuned on the dyno for the cams
2) RPI gt race exhaust sections 1,2,3
3) Agency Power headers
4) Shrick cams
5) Tornado 69 intake assemblies combined with RPI scoops
6) RPI underdrive pulley
has never deliverd on a Maha dyno ( most accurate in the world ), more than 595 crank horses and no less than 585.
Here a very necessary detail must be written. Cams combined with back pressure loss from the RPI exhaust and Agency Power
headers, create a very different power curve, where actually you have nothing below 3500-4000 and then hell breaks loose up to
8400 rpm where my rev limiter is set.
If we want to take the hole thing even further, bigger valves with stronger springs, bigger injectors and bored throttle bodies,
higher capacity fuel pumps and a slightly higher comression of 13:1 ( by using thinner gasket and machined head ), and finally
ported valves can be used, to add another 30-40 crank horses to the engine and making it even more difficult to drive.
630 horses can easily be expected at 8300 rpm with such a set up.
Last but not least the increased engine capacity.
There is an M6 here in Greece which has gone all the way. The guy paid only for the engine to Noelle in Germany 63.000 dollars.
5,8 litres, 720 crank HP at 8700 rpm with 9200 rpm limiter.
Suddenly the ESS VT2 package with 650+ hp and almost 700 with headers and exhaust, starts to look cheap ( a total of 25.000 $ ).
That is all folks. Do not hesitate to drop any questions.
George "
Bryan, Copy Paste from my post an hour ago in thread Ahh..Limp mode page 8.
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Linear Mode
