E60 M5 and low end torque - Page 4

Thom5 · 31st August 2010, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karabiner98k

If you have a VBOX, could you please test the car in this speed range in these gears??

60-100km/h in 5th/6th/7th

Hmmmm....8k+ RPM Redline in 2nd is like 100 kph, and in 3rd is something like 160+ kph. Why would you be in 5-7 at that speed? Especially if you're trying to find the best time; gotta be in the right gear. Try 2nd and maybe 3rd.

ccieurzo · 31st August 2010, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karabiner98k

It is taller in all the gears except first, just compare them:

6-speed: I)4.06 II)2.37 III)1.58 IV)1.19 V)1.00 VI)0.87
7-speed: I)3.98 II)2.65 III)1.86 IV)1.39 V)1.16 VI)1.00 VII)0.83

Overall in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th: II)8.57 III)5.72 IV)4.30 V)3.62 VI)3.14
Overall in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th: II)9.59 III)6.73 IV)5.03 V)4.20 VI)3.62

As you can see above there is a huge difference which is the reason why SMG pulls much better.

Right, that "huge difference" calculates out to the following speeds in real world driving:
6 Speed
1st gear: 2K rpm: 11mph, 3k:16 MPH, 4K:22mph, 5k:27mph, 6k:33mph
SMG
1st gear: 2k: 11mph, 3K:17mph, 4K: 22mpg, 5K:28mph, 6K:33mph

6 Speed
2nd gear: 2k: 19mph, 3k:28mph, 4K:37mph, 5k:47mph, 6K:56mph
SMG
2nd gear: 2k: 17mph, 3K:25 mph,4K:33mph, 5k:42mph, 6k:50mph

6 Speed
3rd gear: 2k: 28mph, 3K:42mph, 4K:56mph, 5K:70mph, 6k:84mph
SMG
3rd gear: 2k: 24mph, 3k:36mph, 4k:48mph, 5k:59mph, 6k:71mph

So basically, in the example I gave of taking a routine T intersection corner at reasonable speeds (ie 15-25 mph) there isn't a huge difference in rpms carried by a 6 speed and SMG. It is not until you are in higher gears and RPMs that there is a significant difference between the SMG and 6 speed, which would be noticeable on a track, not on surface streets.

Karabiner98k · 31st August 2010, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom5

Hmmmm....8k+ RPM Redline in 2nd is like 100 kph, and in 3rd is something like 160+ kph. Why would you be in 5-7 at that speed? Especially if you're trying to find the best time; gotta be in the right gear. Try 2nd and maybe 3rd.

I am not trying to find the best times, i just want to know how M5 performs in 5/6/7 gears in 60-100km/h speed range.

Karabiner98k · 31st August 2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccieurzo

So basically, in the example I gave of taking a routine T intersection corner at reasonable speeds (ie 15-25 mph) there isn't a huge difference in rpms carried by a 6 speed and SMG. It is not until you are in higher gears and RPMs that there is a significant difference between the SMG and 6 speed, which would be noticeable on a track, not on surface streets.

The real difference is that 7-speed gives the car much better tractability in low rpms because it multiplies torque more than the 6-speed. Here is a simple comparison of how much torque goes to the wheels in each transmission in 6th gear:

6-speed manual: 0.87 X 3.62 X 520 = 1637 NM at the wheels
7-speed SMG: 1 X 3.62 X 520 = 1882 NM at the wheels

So, 7-speed box delivers 250NM more torque to the wheels and the car obviously pulls better with more wheel torque. The other advantage of 7-speed is that because of shorter overall ratios the engine always turns at higher rpm and that means more torque too.

With 7-speed box at 60km/h the engine turns at about 1700RPM in 6th gear but with 6-speed box at 60km/h the engine turns at about 1500RPM. There is only 200RPM difference but the truth is that the shorter gearing of 7-speed box always delivers more torque to the wheels and that's why 7-speed box gives better tractability in city driving and low revs.

greer · 31st August 2010, 23:09

I Originally made this post 4 years ago, it's amazing that it has come back up.

Since this post has been written I have logged many miles in the E60 M5 and in a perfect world I would own an E39 M5 and the E60 M5.

They are both great machines and eventually they both will be surpassed by the next M5.

ekorre · 2nd September 2010, 05:38

I am positive that the M3 that is coming in 2012 or 13 will outdo both the new M5 and every M car before it. I am absolutely sure of this reality. I know thats completely unrelated, but I just like to put money on this bet.

m630 · 2nd September 2010, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekorre

I am positive that the M3 that is coming in 2012 or 13 will outdo both the new M5 and every M car before it. I am absolutely sure of this reality. I know thats completely unrelated, but I just like to put money on this bet.

depends on your definition of 'out do'...if you mean turning and handling, sure, but thats not any suprise to anyone, just like the current m3 handles better that the current m5, but the M5 is hands down the better car overall

if you are talking about overall power and refinement, the chances of that are about 0 unless M was to redesign the car from the ground up which it is not. The next m3 will be a turbo 6, while the new M5 will be a ttV8 and possible including KERs at somepoint, they are not meant to be compared because they dont compete with each other. save your money and dont place that bet

zero2sixty · 5th September 2010, 13:04

I have the same question about the torque on this car. im new to this forum and i am looking to get an e60 m5. i will mainly do city driving about 90 percent of the time and am concerned with torque down low. do you guys think i wont enjoy the car as much as i should? to the original poster... after all this time owning the car, how do you feel about the torque and city driving?

JT///M5 · 5th September 2010, 18:31

Seriously, it's not that bad and is really a non issue. Some on here have come from 335i's and that maybe thats the issue here. I have driven and owned many bmws and although the e60 M5 is no torque monster, it's no slouch either. My 4.8is is a torque monster so it doesn't take much for it lurch off the line and pickup speed, but even after a while it's not as fun to drive bc it has no ability to rev high and pull like a banshee like the S85 can. The real difference I have noticed is what takes the 4.8is 2-3k rpms to do it takes the M5 3-4k rpms to match.

greer · 5th September 2010, 18:36

I made this post many years ago and I still own my E39 M5.

Both M5's are great and I would like to own them both.