SMG with Manual Clutch - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

m5rocks · 16th November 2005, 08:08

Before I start, I have to say that i've never gone crazy after a car the way I'm about E60 M5 - I think its one of the finest cars in the world and Top saloons as a whole (styling, performance, technology and comfort). Hopefully, someday I'll be able to get one too.

Please read entire article before you start commenting on my Idea - Thanks!

One of the top complains about E60 M5 is "No Manual transmission" and "jerkiness" while driving at slow speeds and changing gears, which needs some getting used to. I've been thinking about it and I really like the SMG as a whole, it has its own advantages (i.e. F1 style pedals, gearshits really fast) on the other hand Manual transmission has its own advantages (smoother shifts, ability to jump gears, Total control over clutching).

Here is what I thought might make the current setup even better, by adding a Manual Clutch and not just Any clutch...An Electronic one (clutch-by-wire), just like the throttle/accelerator (throttle-by-wire). So based on the position of clutch pedal the transmission will control the clutch's position through an internal servo motor. I said an Electronic one so that when we need automatic shitfing then the transmission will ignore clutch pedal's position and simply control the clutch internally through its own algorithms etc. This way when in automatic mode the pedal is still there but more like a dummy - useless. Plus, since its an electronic clutch the clutch pedal will be reeeaally smooth!

Personally, I think the beauty of this system is that you get best of all three worlds.

i) On cellphone while driving, Wife Driving etc - Put the car in Automatic, just like current SMG's mode, no need for changing gears or clutching

ii) On Track every millisecond counts - Put the car in Manual Mode with Automatic Double-Clutching, just like current SMG's mode, Ultra fast gear changes using Pedals and no need to use clutch pedal - Just concentrate on the curves ahead.

iii) Regular driving at slow speeds or just wanna do it the old way - Put the car in Manual Mode with Manual Clutching, now drive just like a manual with a clutch + smooth gear changes + You get same 7 gears (instead of 6 with proposed gearbox) + simple gear shifting through pedals + You get the ability to jump gears too!

I am a Computer Science and Engineering Student. I obviously don't know M5's transmission the way Engineers at BMW know..but I think its shouldn't be a problem to add an external link to the servo motor that controls clutch plate, and hook it up with an electronic Clutch pedal - I know its not as easy as it sounds but shouldn't be tough for Engineers who designed this State-of-the-Art car!

ok Now...Opinions? Criticizm? and whatever else?

Regards,
Atif

montulli · 16th November 2005, 10:08

I agree with you whole heartedly. I have thought about this often, and I think a hybrid solution that allows for a manual clutch when desired would be the best of all worlds.

I love driving a manual around town, but on the track I find myself very hesitant to try down shifting while clutching while at the same time trying to hold a turn at maximum G's. An SMG is ideal on the track but not as much fun to drive around the neaborhood.

I'm a little sceptical that an electronic drive by wire clutch would have the same feel and responsiveness as a real clutch pedal, but the break feels normal so perhaps they can make it work.

Taipan · 16th November 2005, 15:56

I like the idea and have thought about it often myself. dont know whether its possible, and so forth.. I personally drive always stick but in traffic would enjoy automatic, and a semiauto is probably in real fast driving better, but manual maybe a little more entertaining (yet slower) than a semi-auto on a track. So my opinion is not very simple is it LOl..

vndkshn · 17th November 2005, 05:16

Let me just say, it is not a crazy idea. If you look at it, there is little technical reason that it can't work. In fact, the idea of a system that operates as SMG one minute, with full automatic control of the clutch, and paddle or front/back using the gear selector. And then at the press of a button, the gear shift operates as a 7 speed gear selector, and clutch operation is manual.

I can't say where, or give alot of details on the system, but I recently demoed a solution that could be integrated very easily. The big challenge as I see it, integrating with the SMG computer, and what to do with the clutch pedal when not using it...

MEnthusiast · 17th November 2005, 05:24

Dan,
You'd be using the clutch pedal- no worries!

We've had this discussion before- I agree- its a cool idea.

vndkshn · 17th November 2005, 05:53

That is true... but there are those that might not use it all the time...

EBMCS03 · 17th November 2005, 06:39

Hahah same idea... check it out. Interesting read http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=15788

m5rocks · 17th November 2005, 06:54

Wow! its nice to hear that other people are interested in this kind of setup too - I didn't know it had been discussed before thats why I started this thread.

I would doubt that its hard to integrate a clutch-by-wire with the SMG system - From what I know most of it is software controlled/Programmed, so it all boils down to modifying and adding more code which again in my opinion isn't tough for all the smart guys at BMW.

When not in use the clutch pedal could automatically lock in pressed state (close to the floor) so it gets out of the way or even can be used as a foot-rest.

About the feel of the clutch - Remember when Hydraulic clutch was first introduced in cars and it felt so soft and smooth like its not even connected with the transmission and then we started liking it - easy on left leg, well same with this I guess!

Another thing - M5 has a high-rev engine and from what I recall one of the reasons they went with a 7-SMG was to "keep it in the safe spot". Thats why it automatically downshifts when slowing and doesn't downshifts if the engine rpm will go in the redline. With this setup you still have that added layer of protection there along with a clutch!

Gustav or anyone else who knows someone at BMW (like a M Programme manager etc) - Did you ever had a discussion with them about a similar setup? If yes, what was their response?

m5rocks · 17th November 2005, 06:56

LOL...should have done more research before posting a NEW idea

EBMCS03 · 17th November 2005, 07:01

Hahah you did fine... how would you know that the discussion was from a different board. I just posted it here to let you read others opinion also.