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Old 30th October 2005, 22:41   #1
Ilya Zverev
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Myth of engine break in

Went for a drive at the dealer on the new M5 and the limiter was not removed. It was limited to 5500 RPM. Very annoying. The dealer wasn't very informed about the car and didn't know to turn off the feature for the customers to drive the car properly. Needless to say the car felt sluggish and lifeless. Very different from e39 M5. Closer to M3 actually. There is nothing up to 4K RPM - after that the car gets a kick, but the limiter kills it at 5500.

I've had M3 for 3 years now and it spends 30-40 days at the track - the only way to drive it is to rev it. Keep it 6-8K RPM and the car is lightning, below 5K M3 has nothing. e60 M5 was very similar.

Ok now to the topic of the thread. e60 M5 comes with the limiter (good thing for the transporting personnel who have no need to rev the cold engines to 8K to put it on the ramp). But the dealer has the option to remove the limiter right away and not wait till 1200 miles. (similar to e46 M3)

I broke in many engines in my life and the best way to do it is to apply compression and power to the rings while they are being sealed. You have to use full RPM range.

The only way to be cautions about is to warm up the oil. Whnt the oil is 210 and higher - go to town. Not saying beat on the engine and hang it in 1st at 8K, but give it progressive full throttle acceleration through all gears, use engine braking, very engine speeds. The worst thing you can do to the new engine is to lag it. And that's seems to be the believe because of the way the manuals are written.
Went to 2 schools at BMW South Carolina. They use brand new cars and they don't wait for 1200 miles to drive them. Just last Wednesday and Thursday BMW NA brought new e60 M5s to Lime Rock - they were not limited. Several BMW mechanics confirmed that it is done to cover the *** for parts malfunction (like oil pump failure, SMG hick ups) and mainly to make the driver learn the car. Engines are running at the factory before they are put in the cars and the tolerances are so tight now, there is nothing to be afraid of.

Ask your dealer to remove the limiter and turn all the features on - don't torture yourself and the car.

Here is the link to a similar opinion on web site;
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Old 30th October 2005, 22:49   #2
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Re: Myth of engine break in

I agree with you 100%.
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Old 30th October 2005, 22:50   #3
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Re: Myth of engine break in

There is no rev limiter (below red line) at any time, including during the break-in period. You can use and abuse it in any way you wish.

I've kept closely to the break-in restrictions except for a brief moment today when a C5 Corvette wanted to play. It took a quick press of the M button and a few more seconds for the point to be made. When I blasted past, I immediately slowed down to resume my break-in. He pulled along side with a stunned look on his face and waved. He was clearly awed, but a very good sport.
Tom
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:03   #4
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Re: Myth of engine break in

According to what I was told/my believes you shouldn't force the engine at once. Like you said the first thing that is crucial is engine temprature. That the fluids get upto temprature and into the engine before doing anything. Several brand dealers (MB and BMW) have told me it's best to let the car running in idle for a few minutes (specialy in the winter) while breaking it in so the engine can get upto temprature.

Second it's best to open the car up slowly. Don't punch the pedal at once or do sudden downshifts/kick downs. If suddenly too much pressure is applied to the rough piston rings then there's a possibilty they can scratch the cylinder walls which you do not want. Slowly and gently get the engine upto revs and use the complete rpm range. But don't over strain the engine by demanding too much power or speed.

At first be gentle no high revving and then slowly on a daily basis go higher and higher and on occasion open it up.

This has worked well with my 3 other cars and this is how I will break my M6 in.

This is the order of new cars.
VW Passat Variant TDI (company lease) -> BMW 525TDS -> MB E500 (current) -> BMW M6.

Offtopic: After driven 2 turbo diesel cars I've completely sworn of them. The 525TDS was nice still had the same problem as other diesel cars. And that problem is power. Don't get me wrong, these engines have huge amounts of power, knock you into the back of your seat kind of power. The problem however is that the power range is very small, ussualy from 2000 to 4000 rpm. The power suddenly comes up causing huge acceleration and then as quickly as it came up it drops away. It needs alot of getting used to and if you want to drive fast you need to memorize alot of the shift points using the revcounter, you can't really get the feel like in a gasoline car.

No sir from now on it's either gasoline or LPG for me.

Last edited by frylord; 30th October 2005 at 23:03.
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:04   #5
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Re: Myth of engine break in

I agree to a point. I certainly wouldn't beat on my car either. But five minutes off the lot and I inadvertently blew past 5500 and up to 6000rpm. The inertia of higher RPM's does cause connecting rod and ring stretching that in the long run probably extends the life of the internals. Running the car at the same RPM all day long is probably the worst thing to do since you run the risk of scoring the cylinder walls at a certain level and not allowing the parts to seat properly. We're talking about microns here and the engine tolerances are so refined that pushing the motor to 8000prm briefly is problably not an issue.
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:35   #6
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Re: Myth of engine break in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Zverev
Went for a drive at the dealer on the new M5 and the limiter was not removed. It was limited to 5500 RPM. Very annoying. The dealer wasn't very informed about the car and didn't know to turn off the feature for the customers to drive the car properly. Needless to say the car felt sluggish and lifeless. Very different from e39 M5. Closer to M3 actually. There is nothing up to 4K RPM - after that the car gets a kick, but the limiter kills it at 5500.

I've had M3 for 3 years now and it spends 30-40 days at the track - the only way to drive it is to rev it. Keep it 6-8K RPM and the car is lightning, below 5K M3 has nothing. e60 M5 was very similar.

Ok now to the topic of the thread. e60 M5 comes with the limiter (good thing for the transporting personnel who have no need to rev the cold engines to 8K to put it on the ramp). But the dealer has the option to remove the limiter right away and not wait till 1200 miles. (similar to e46 M3)

I broke in many engines in my life and the best way to do it is to apply compression and power to the rings while they are being sealed. You have to use full RPM range.

The only way to be cautions about is to warm up the oil. Whnt the oil is 210 and higher - go to town. Not saying beat on the engine and hang it in 1st at 8K, but give it progressive full throttle acceleration through all gears, use engine braking, very engine speeds. The worst thing you can do to the new engine is to lag it. And that's seems to be the believe because of the way the manuals are written.
Went to 2 schools at BMW South Carolina. They use brand new cars and they don't wait for 1200 miles to drive them. Just last Wednesday and Thursday BMW NA brought new e60 M5s to Lime Rock - they were not limited. Several BMW mechanics confirmed that it is done to cover the *** for parts malfunction (like oil pump failure, SMG hick ups) and mainly to make the driver learn the car. Engines are running at the factory before they are put in the cars and the tolerances are so tight now, there is nothing to be afraid of.

Ask your dealer to remove the limiter and turn all the features on - don't torture yourself and the car.

Here is the link to a similar opinion on web site;
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Oh, please, not this again! The link is to a guy whose experience centers on motorcycle engines. The question -- to which the answer should be obvious -- is should a new M5 owner who has invested more than $90,000 in the car follow the break-in procedures specified by the manufacturer that has developed and tested the engine for years or ignore those procedures because some self-appointed motorcycle guru says so?

In addition, after a ride and drive today in an M5 today, I do not agree with the claim that below 5,000 rpms the engine "has nothing." I suppose everyone's idea of forceful acceleration is different, but I am quite certain I felt "something" fairly impressive well before the tachomoter touched 5,000.

Finally, as Tom correctly says, there is no rev limiter at 5,000 rpm or anywhere else below redline.
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:36   #7
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Re: Myth of engine break in

One of the very best ways that I actually read here to ensure great piston ring seal is the following: Get the car in to a high gear such as 6th or 7th at low speed, being careful NOT to lug the engine. Then press the throttle to the floor, making sure of course that you are in M mode, not D. Release the throttle when the revs are getting close to 5-6K or whatever the maximum running in recommendation is. This creates a very high vacuum which will help draw oil up around the rings helping to ensure a good seal/wear pattern. I've done it on every car I've owned since reading it here.
Bish
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:41   #8
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Re: Myth of engine break in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Zverev
Went for a drive at the dealer on the new M5 and the limiter was not removed. It was limited to 5500 RPM. Very annoying...
Can you describe what happened with you got to 5500? There is no limiter, so I'm curious what you felt. Did the engine cut out, was it fuel starved, spark starved, sudden loss of power, progressive loss of power?
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:43   #9
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Re: Myth of engine break in

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRichmond
Oh, please, not this again! The link is to a guy whose experience centers on motorcycle engines. The question -- to which the answer should be obvious -- is should a new M5 owner who has invested more than $90,000 in the car follow the break-in procedures specified by the manufacturer that has developed and tested the engine for years or ignore those procedures because some self-appointed motorcycle guru says so?

In addition, after a ride and drive today in an M5 today, I do not agree with the claim that below 5,000 rpms the engine "has nothing." I suppose everyone's idea of forceful acceleration is different, but I am quite certain I felt "something" fairly impressive well before the tachomoter touched 5,000.

Finally, as Tom correctly says, there is no rev limiter at 5,000 rpm or anywhere else below redline.
The comments on this topic always amaze me. I agree with MRichmond. There are good reasons that the factory has specified such a specific regimen for our M5's. My guess is that they have to do with longevity, dependability and ultimately for them, lower warranty service costs. Unless I'm missing something, I think I would have those same goals.
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Old 30th October 2005, 23:54   #10
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Re: Myth of engine break in

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRichmond
Oh, please, not this again! The link is to a guy whose experience centers on motorcycle engines. The question -- to which the answer should be obvious -- is should a new M5 owner who has invested more than $90,000 in the car follow the break-in procedures specified by the manufacturer that has developed and tested the engine for years or ignore those procedures because some self-appointed motorcycle guru says so?
I have to agree with that. The break in procedures of supersports bikes (like my ZX12R) are very thightly defined and don't match anything that guy said. Kawasaki even had engine blocks blowing up because of wrong break in. After which they started specifying a break in of 5000km, max 6000rpm and listing exactly what todo and not todo. For a bike that can do 200+ km/h in 3th gear and doesn't have any power in the low range, break in is very annoying.

There were some serious accidents on the German autobahn because of blocks blowing up at 300+ km/h speeds. People breaking their bike in upto 2000km, then finally open it up and BOOM! gone.

Last edited by frylord; 30th October 2005 at 23:59.
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