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question about the functional aspect of the M5's spoiler

7K views 15 replies 12 participants last post by  BmwNut 
#1 · (Edited)
This is probably a stupid question but does the spoiler offer any real aerodynamic advantage versus going without it? At higher speeds maybe? And it doesn't look like it was designed for downforce even in the least bit so what's the point of having it other than looking like an ugly tacked-on afterthought?

I honestly think it's not functional even in the least bit... but I've been having a debate over friends who think otherwise. "High speed stability near 200 mph" is their rationale. I think that's BS and BMW just glued one on for looks and to add another distinguishing design element for the M5 over the non-M E60's.
 
#2 ·
masmole said:
This is probably a stupid question but does the spoiler offer any real aerodynamic advantage versus going without it? At higher speeds maybe? And it doesn't look like it was designed for downforce even in the least bit so what's the point of having it other than looking like an ugly tacked-on afterthought?

I honestly think it's not functional even in the least bit... but I've been having a debate over friends who think otherwise. "High speed stability near 200 mph" is their rationale. I think that's BS and BMW just glued one on for looks and to add another distinguishing design element for the M5 over the non-M E60's.
I would guess not. However, it's easy to take off - just use a hot air dryer and some dental floss. Then use goo-gone or equivalent to remove the residual glue. Then, you can probably sell it on ebay. ;)
 
#4 ·
masmole said:
This is probably a stupid question but does the spoiler offer any real aerodynamic advantage versus going without it? At higher speeds maybe? And it doesn't look like it was designed for downforce even in the least bit so what's the point of having it other than looking like an ugly tacked-on afterthought?

I honestly think it's not functional even in the least bit... but I've been having a debate over friends who think otherwise. "High speed stability near 200 mph" is their rationale. I think that's BS and BMW just glued one on for looks and to add another distinguishing design element for the M5 over the non-M E60's.
Considering the car is electronically limited to 155 MPH, and given how small the spoiler is, to me it's clearly a cosmetic item--like it or hate it.
 
#8 ·
From a thread in a NSX forum:

Do Air Dams, Spoilers, and Wings Work?
(Car and Driver Sept 98)
When we hear a posh English accent, we assume the speaker is intelligent. If we see food packaged in a green box labeled "Organic!" we assume it is healthful. Similarly, when we see a skirtlike air dam on the front of a car, or a wing or spoiler on it's rear deck, we presume it's a performance car. But do these devices in fact have an aerodynamic effect on production cars? Or are they no more functional then a vinyl roof? They come in so many configurations and sizes, and on so many kinds of cars, that it's easy to dismiss them as nothing more then eye candy. But that's not always warranted, as we shall see.
Aerodynamics is almost as much black art as it is science, and problems that crop up when air is forced around an object are not easy to fathom. As a car speeds down the road, for example, it creates a moving obstruction in the atmosphere. Stationary molecules of air must move up, down, or sideways to flow around the car as it forges ahead. The air that ends up underneath the car can be trapped by the various mechanical bits protruding from a car's undercarriage and end up being dragged along by the moving car. That's how a car can pick up a scrap of paper as it passes over it and whisk the paper along in its wake. Dragging this air along requires energy and comprises a large fraction of a car's aerodynamic drag.
Moreover, the flow of air underneath the car can build pressure at the front of the car and in the engine bay, lifting it upward, resulting in less force pressing the tires to the pavement. That means less grip, which can adversely affect handling.
One way to attack these drag and lift problems is by creating a smooth underbelly. That can be done by installing panels underneath the car to reduce the likelihood of air being snagged and pressurized by underbody protrusions. But today, only pricey mid- and rear-engined production cars such as the Ferrari F355 and the Lotus Esprit use such panels because of the cost of manufacturing and installing these parts, known as "belly pans."
A far more common solution is the front air dam, a rigid, skirtlike panel that extends below the front bumper. This dam diverts air upward over the hood, or into a grille opening, or around the sides of the vehicle.
At the rear of the car, the goal is to keep the air flowing smoothly over the body so that the hole the car punches through the atmosphere closes as neatly as possible. Airflow that closely follows the contour of the car is called "attached" or "laminar." The shape that best achieves this laminar flow is the teardrop---the configuration formed by a drop of rain as it falls through the air (round end first, for science philistines). GM's super-efficient EV1 electric car approximates this shape, but more conventional contours can also maintain laminar flow. The essential contour is a rear window that is sloped to within 25 or so degrees of horizontal. Many hatchbacks are so designed, as are such cars as the Chevy Corvette and the Toyota Supra.
But keeping the air attached to the vehicle can present a different set of challenges. When you observe such a hatchback car from the side, it is curved on top and flat on the bottom---like the cross section of an airplane wing. When air flows over a shape like this, the air must travel faster over the top than over the bottom. This phenomenon produces lift and is known as Bernoulli's principle, which maintains that a pressure drop must when airflow is accelerated. The pressure over the top of the car might be only a fraction of a psi less than the pressure on the bottom, but that difference acts over a large area of the car---from 10 to 20 square feet. The pressure difference also increases with speed. Traveling at more then 100 mph in some cars can produce hundreds of pounds of lift. Lift generated this way typically acts more on the rear of the car. But it has a similarly destabilizing effect on handling as front-end lift.
Vehicles with more-vertical rear windows---such as formal sedans, wagons, and minivans---don't suffer from these lift problems as much, because the air spills behind their more-upright rear windows in randomly tumbling eddy currents. This is what's known as turbulence, and although it limits lift, it's a major contributor to drag. The middle ground between these two conditions---between 28 and 32 degrees of backlight angle---is no solution, either. At this angle, the air can't decide whether it should stay attached or become turbulent, so it does both unpredictably. Aerodynamicists are about as fond of this backlight angle as they are of a vertical, flat windshield.
Rear wings and spoilers were invented to address these lift and airflow issues. Wings come in many shapes and sizes, but they share a common characteristic---a narrow, horizontal surface, mounted away from the body in clean, undisturbed air. (Wings mounted close to the body are either nonfunctional or act more like spoilers, described below.) Wings add downforce---the opposite of lift. One way to create downforce is to shape the wing into an airfoil---an airplane wing of sorts---and turn it upside down. This forces the flow below the wing to travel at a higher velocity then the air above, creating a downward force. A second way to create such downforce is to angle the front of the wing slightly downward into the airflow. This creates more drag then a horizontal airfoil, but it can allow adjustability of the downforce.
To differentiate a spoiler from a wing, think of turkey plumage. The spoiler is an angular, liplike appendage attached to, or designed into, the rear of the car. It can be used to create downforce like a wing , but it's more commonly used to reduce lift or drag. On hatchbacks, a lip spoiler can create a pool of air ahead of the spoiler that separates the airflow from the backlight, reducing lift. It can also be used at the rear of the car to launch the airflow cleanly away from the vehicle, preventing its tendency to remain attached to the car's trailing surfaces. This can decrease drag as well as reduce the underbody pressure that contributes to lift.
Automakers were hard at work on drag reduction as far back as the 1930s. It wasn't until the early 1960s, as both race-car and production-car top speeds approached 200 mph, that lift became an issue. Ferrari racer Richie Ginther is credited with inventing the rear spoiler for downforce in 1961, and discreet rear spoilers started appearing on competition Ferraris soon thereafter. One of the first cars to use a front air dam was Ford's GT40. The high snouts of early prototypes produced so much lift at 200 mph that they were virtually undrivable. Fitting a air dam increased the force on the front-tire contact patches from 310 pounds to 604 pounds at top speed. The Dodge Charger Daytona and Plymouth Superbird twins of 1969-70 were among the first production cars to sport a rear wing. The adjustable wing, supported high above the rear deck by finlike butresses, combined with changes to the nose of the car (including an air dam) to increase downforce at both ends of the car. This allowed test drivers to lap Daytona speedway 5 mph faster.
Porsche was probably more responsible then any other carmaker for tuning air dams and spoilers into fashion statements. The 1975 Turbo's integrated front air dam and huge whale-tail spoiler in back cut overall lift on the cantankerously handling 911 by a whopping 90 percent. The air-dam-and-plumage look soon became synonymous with the prestigious Porsche brand. By the late 1970s, just about any car aspiring to a performance image ware some kind of air dam or spoiler.
Today, air dams, spoilers, and wings can be found on such supercars as the Dodge Viper GTS and Acura NSX, where you would expect them. But they also adorn the exteriors of Dodge Neons, Toyota Vorollas, Oldsmobile Intrigues, and other sedans, many of which are not capable of speeds of much more than 100 mph.
Which raises an important point. These aerodynamic devices don't do much if your not going fast. Aerodynamic drag doesn't even exceed tire drag until you've reached 40 to 50 mph, and you may have to be doing well over 100 mph for spoilers and wings to have any appreciable effect on lift or downforce. This is because aerodynamic forces vary with the square of a car from 80 to 160 mph, and it faces a four-fold increase in lift and drag forces.
Nearly all cars can benefit from the drag-reducing effects of an air-dam. The Pontiac Grand Prix sedan's front air dam, for example, reduces that car's overall drag by 5 to 10 percent. Front air dams also help with engine cooling and can even serve as a useful place to mount fog lights.
Carmakers don't deny, though, that rear wings and spoilers are often more show than go. At GM, spoilers are usually added as a marketing-driven item at the beginning of a car's development, according to John Plonka, an aerodynamics-development engineer at the company. "From there, we take those pieces and try to make them aerodynamically useful, with varying success," he adds. John Doughty, chief designer of Ford's Advanced Design Studio, describes a similar story but adds that "if we found that it detracted from the performance, we wouldn't recommend it." Perhaps such a recommendation was made, but not heeded, on the Ford Mustang Cobra.
Some carmakers would rather not install spoilers but offer them simply because car buyers demand them. "Personally, it hurts to see a Camry with a [nonfunctioning] spoiler on the back," says Donald W. Brown, former national product-planning manager for Toyota in the U.S., "but if the dealers are going to put them on anyway, we would rather supply them to ensure their compatibility with the car."
That doesn't mean these devices are never beneficial to workaday cars. Brown notes that the factory rear spoiler on the Lexus SC trims its coefficient drag from 0.32 to 0.31, and Ford's Doughty notes a similar improvement with the rear wing of the Ford Taurus SHO. A future Ford economy car might end up with a rear spoiler solely for fuel-economy reasons, says Doughty.
So, it appears that front air dams are usually functional, whereas rear wings and spoilers are as often functional as they are frivolous. Ford Advanced Studio designer Grant Garrison sums it up this way: "If wings and spoilers weren't popular, we wouldn't put them on cars. We'd find some other way to make them aerodynamic." In other words, if wings and spoilers are what car buyers want, that's what they'll get. Whether they work or not.
 
#10 ·
I didn't read the copy and paste stuff above but in the E39 at speed the spoiler added about 100 pounds to the rear end. They didn't say what "at speed" speed was.

Also, haven't we learned that aerodynamics add a lot the shape of a vehicle passing through air.

If you don't like it take it off. :rolleyes:
 
#11 ·
I don't think iit is bogus at all:

"reduced rear axle loads by half".

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/?t=43543

An extremely muscular rear end.

At the rear apron, the inwards-pointing rear wheel arches intensify the optical effect of the 285 wide tyres by signalising an even more dominant track width. Thanks to a rear diffuser and flaps to the left and right of it, the rear has an extremely muscular look. Like all other M models, the M5 boasts four typical round tailpipes. The rear diffuser fulfils a central function in underbody air routing. Together with the unobtrusive spoiler integrated into the rear lid and the almost entirely smooth, flat underbody, it accomplishes an improvement in airflow across the underbody, resulting in an excellent drag coefficient and a reduction in lift forces. Customers with particularly sporting ambitions have the option of a rear spoiler that reduces rear axle lift by a half. A new registration plate trim gives the M5 a unique and superior appearance.
 
#12 ·
40 kg increased downforce at 200 km/h.

It´s mandatory when you release the top speed limiter at BMW.
 
#13 ·
cidair said:
40 kg increased downforce at 200 km/h.

It´s mandatory when you release the top speed limiter at BMW.
is it 40 kg increase in downforce? or is it rather 40kg reduce in liftforce?

from Sport Auto's aerodynamic analysis of the E60 M5, like most road cars, M5's shape actually doesn't generate any downforce at speed.
 

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#16 ·
That little lip can better control the shed vortice on the rear of the car and help reduce lift. As said above, it wont generate downforce, but rather reduce lift. If the rear is making lift, at speeds of greater than 130 (guesstimating) the rear wont be as stable. If you dont plan on driving the car at speeds greater than 150, then I dont think it is an issue either way, and you should treat it as eye candy.
:cheers:
 
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