Good review of SMGIII in Automobile's M6 review - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

MRichmond · 30th June 2005, 19:04

This link was first posted on the M6 board:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...s/0507_bmw_m6/

It is a generally glowing review of the M6 and of the technical elements that it shares with the M5. About the transmission, the article says:

"The shifts are sensationally fast in their optimal setting, but it seems as if the driveline is taking a beating. Tone the shift speed down, release the throttle on upshifts, and you can make it as smooth as a conventional manual, although that does seem somewhat self-defeating. The automatic mode is far better than previous SMG iterations, although it isn't as fluid as the best modern automatics. For anyone who can't cope with all this trickery, a manual will be available about a year after launch, specifically to suit American customers."

It also estimates the price of the M6 at $106,000, "probably $20,000 more than the M5."

vndkshn · 30th June 2005, 20:30

You know, I think the one thing that most mags miss about SMG.. sure, it RIPS the shifts, and in their aggressive testing, they love it. But I would love to see a long term test, where in the day to day, they find themselves getting bored with it, and tired of the need to babysit it.

Gop-Dogg · 30th June 2005, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by vndkshn

where in the day to day, they find themselves getting bored with it, and tired of the need to babysit it.

What do you mean? I don't find that I'm 'babysitting' my SMG vs. the manual in my M5. And how is an SMG any more boring day-to-day than a manual? The acts of moving the shifter and pressing the clutch don't make driving any more exciting for me over the SMG. If a workout for my right arm and left leg was what I was looking for, I'd go play tennis.

What I'm most interested in is if the often harsh shifts under aggressive driving put any additional wear on the driveline or if the sytem is 'supposed to be that way'.

bernhtp · 30th June 2005, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gop-Dogg

What I'm most interested in is if the often harsh shifts under aggressive driving put any additional wear on the driveline or if the sytem is 'supposed to be that way'.

There is no doubt that S6 driving is harder on the drivetrain, and even more clearly, the car would not last long if LC were used on all starts. I don't know how overbuilt the transmission is and how well it would tolerate continous and hard S6 driving. Your neck might give out before the car does.

Tom

MEnthusiast · 30th June 2005, 23:20

SMG will not allow you to use LC on all starts- and there is the possibility the USA SMG3 will have a less extreme LC.

I remember driving the M3 SMG2 in its full on attack mode and the shifts were brutal. BUT- I also remember getting a ride around the track with one of the BMW Performance Center's instructors driving a M3 stick shift and his shifts were just like the brutal SMG. So that SMG system is giving you that full on experience- if you ask for it.

Enigma · 1st July 2005, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gop-Dogg

And how is an SMG any more boring day-to-day than a manual? The acts of moving the shifter and pressing the clutch don't make driving any more exciting for me over the SMG. If a workout for my right arm and left leg was what I was looking for, I'd go play tennis.

Could not have said it better. Personally I hate the fact that I cannot left foot brake my non-smg car. I have better things to do with my left food than step on the clutch.

vndkshn · 1st July 2005, 05:06

By babysitting it, I mean since you cannot modulate the clutch at all, it actually seems to take more attention, especially in terms of downshifting. The number of times my wife's head whipped forward on simple in traffic downshifts said alot to me. At least with the manual I can control how quickly the clutch engages.

And flicking the switches got very old for me very quickly. I'd rather drive my truck which is full auto and sucks down gas at an even higher rate. At least it shifts smooth, without me learning a totally new system and not being happy with the results.

Could I learn to drive the SMG as well as manual? Probably. Would I enjoy it as much in typical driving after 1 year? No way. 6 months? Nope. While I like all of the other bells and whistles and new tech in the car.. SMG is one that just isn't me.

As for left foot braking.. I was just treated to a moron in a M3 with SMG "left foot braking"... which translates to lightly pressing the brake pedal.. enough to have the lights on all of the time. In fact, there is hardly a week that goes by that I don't see a example of this.

Enigma · 1st July 2005, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by vndkshn

By babysitting it, I mean since you cannot modulate the clutch at all, it actually seems to take more attention, especially in terms of downshifting. The number of times my wife's head whipped forward on simple in traffic downshifts said alot to me. At least with the manual I can control how quickly the clutch engages.
...
As for left foot braking.. I was just treated to a moron in a M3 with SMG "left foot braking"... which translates to lightly pressing the brake pedal.. enough to have the lights on all of the time. In fact, there is hardly a week that goes by that I don't see a example of this.

Have you actually ever paid attention to your passenger in the same way while driving a manual? My guess is most people just thing they are smoother because they are distracted by moving levers and pressing pedals. I would be willing to bet we could put a data logger in a manual car and then a properlly driven SMG car and you would not see a diffrence in the data dump.

Now on the second point. I am going to assume you know the diffrence between a "moron" that think the brake pedal is a foot rest vs someone that left foot brakes to smooth the transitions between acceleration and braking. The first can happen in ANY car, just in manual cars they tend to rest on the clutch pedal and burn out the clutch instead of the brakes.

Seems like a few people are getting bitter that we have so many out there that enjoy SMG III for what it is. A device that gives the driver all the control over the gear changes without the hassle of an awkward interface that requires them to take a hand off the wheel and operate three pedals with only two feet.

If you are into driving instead of shifting SMG is better than a manual.

BmwNut · 1st July 2005, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

If you are into driving instead of shifting SMG is better than a manual.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Matter of fact, that statement is just plain ridiculous. Please define driving for all of us who only like to shift.
In my eyes, driving entails everything from clipping an apex perfectly, getting in a good trail brake, and nailing the heel and toe to the corner. The process of shifting is automatic to me now, I dont think of it, and it is rare to ever see someones head move on a downshift. In the grand picture, combining not only the car control skill but the shifting skills required to operate a car at a high rate of speed through corners is called driving, and only those who work hard at it finally get it. Once you learn how to operate your car to best of the cars ability, there is great personal satisfaction when DSC is off, you are in a stick, and you know that only a very select few people in the world could beat you dont your favorite stretch of road. Adding SMG is removing an element to the elegant dance that exists between the car and the driver. Does that numb the experiance to those who have great talent to operate a car? Yes, it sure does, it is IMO akin to removing the women when you make love.
If driving stick takes your attention away from driving, then it is time to practice more. If causes you to miss an apex, then it is time to practice more. If you have practiced enough, a proper downshift doesnt take any thought at all, it just happens. SMG is IMO taking the easy route, and for some that is fine, but please dont label SMG drivers as the ones who care about driving more than stick drivers. SMG allows you to focus more on the driving, but if you need that then you were lacking in a fundamental skill before hand.
I'm tired of hearing the merits of SMG being faster around a track too. Sure, it can upshift faster than me. How about downshifting? It is really moot, as you usually have enough time in a braking zone to get the car in the right gear. If not, work on downshifting faster. I highly doubt the limited amount of time upshifts save you will impact a lap time more so than your own driving ability/consistancy.
BTW, you sure can left foot brake with a stick. Learn how to downshift without using the clutch. It isnt all that hard, and if you are striving for the few 10ths that left foot braking will get you rather than trail braking with your right foot, I think you can stand to abuse some case hardened gears. Look at old Group B rally cars, and watch their drivers dance their feet on the pedals.
In the end Enigma, you really touched a nerve here with me, as is probably really obvious. SMG is a cool deal, but thinking that it is the only way to go is a huge fallacy, and so is comparing SMG drivers and stick drivers in the manner that you did. If deifying SMG drivers appeals to you, then have at it. Just dont expect others, especially those who pride themselves in their driving ability as a whole, to take down that hogwash with a smile.

qrac · 1st July 2005, 11:11

i think any racedriver prefers an automatic or sequential transmission to a manual. it IS superior because it behaves in a predictable way every single time unlike a human. back when formula 1 cars had manual transmissions it wasn't all that unusual for a driver to screw up a shift..