The SAGA of my M5 (still love her tho) - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 30 Old 28th January 2017, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Muz_M5
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Smile The SAGA of my M5 (still love her tho)

Hello all. Had my beast for over a year now but probably this is the first post I am making (recently got permission to post) so I shall dig right in.

I shall first go over the mods that were already on the car when I bought it: 1) supersprint headers (catless), hartge accelerator booster, K&N typhoons.

Mods that I did : secondary cat delete.

So now my beast was catless and the smell of fuel in the cabin nearly killed me (this is later solved, read on.)

Now once I had gotten it it threw a bunch of codes mainly misfiring with cylinder cut-off on almost all the cylinders but these were cleared,
2B35: Misfire with cutoff cycl 1
2B36: Misfire with cutoff cycl 2
2B37: Misfire with cutoff cycl 3
2B38: Misfire with cutoff cycl 4
2B39: Misfire with cutoff cycl 5
2B41 : Misfire with multiple cylin..... etc etc you get the idea

Got a new clutch for the monster and did the SMG adaptation procedures and what not (Transmission no ISSUES.. knock on WOOD). The car ran fine for 2-3 months and then BAM!! MISFIRES on a whole another level.... my Vanos inlet and outlet gears were out of order. So like any good m5 owner I gave it the utmost attention got it changed pronto, and the car was as good as new no codes (well the oxygen codes kept popping up, but I figured I have no cats so maybe that is the case)

Took the car out and while testing in M-mode in 3rd and 4th gears specifically it threw the CEL (**REDUCED ENGINE POWER.... ). Guessed maybe the coil packs are bad changed them along with a new ionic sensor (on one bank) it seemed fine, but BEHOLD the fumes you had read about previously still there. The garage I am learning to work on cars (YES I am new to the automobile scene but we all start somewhere) nearly chocked on the vapors and had to take precautions to not suffocate. Now at this point I thought to myself that being catless this was a normal occurrence to but now come in the O2 sensor codes... so I swapped the 02 sensors and LO! my idle had dropped and the gas smell was next to normal!

Now the engineer who I am currently learning all these great things from the vehicular dreams world took the car again for a test and it starts misfiring again as to no apparent reason, so now we are stuck again back to square one. I have scorched the forums for all possible leads and like any great detective we all start from the crime scene the codes will be read tomorrow to see what we got now.

And then come my questions :0
1) Being catless would definitely require a tune? The closed loop control in the M5 or any other car for the matter reads the lambda values from the pre-cat sensors (which I have in place) and adjusts AFR accordingly and the post-cat O2 sensors are more for the outer-loop-control to fine tune the AFR. Having no cats at all without a tune could be attributing to these faults? Maybe?? Possibly??? Definitely????

*** the funny thing is that once the new O2 sensors were placed the idle jus dropped and the intoxicating fumes were gone! :s


2) The spark plugs were blacked out but they were recently changed. We figured since the car ran rich all this time maybe they just fouled it could they be the culprit? (checked the sparks too they are find but a recommended change)

3) I had a doubt on these stupid k&n s but the MAF readings were normal ......

4) Maybe it is a glitch in the M5 MATRIX? (DME-issues)?

5) Checked the valves/valve springs all in order...

6) Fuel injectors cleaned

7) Bad fuel (m I knew I shouldnt have put gas in from the stupid gas station , but I live in Qatar so gas is almost uniform all over but you never know)

NOW what you ask well I want to know from all the ESTEEMED members of this brotherhood to help another brother out. Though I have not dirven my car properly for the past 4 months the learning experience I have is worth it (Wish I can say the same for the money I spent lool). The thing is I believe in the experience rather than the finances ( I know need to grow up, but I aint married my only wife is my baby M5).

So if you all could help me narrow down the ifs and buts I would greatly appreciate it and now that I can post well I will keep you updated on a DAILY
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post #2 of 30 Old 29th January 2017, 12:16 AM
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The SAGA of my M5 (still love her tho)

If the car already had super sprint headers then this issue should have been there already without a tune. You probably have a tune.

Definitely need a tune when primaries are removed. Secondaries just mitigate the smell a bit but they do not 'really' play a role in lambda (AFR) control. Get a tune or verify whether it had one already. Definitely will get a CEL without it and the car won't run right.

Black sparks can be a result of running very rich. Check this out:

http://bustekhub.com/index.php/2016/...ark-plugs-101/

Last edited by rt7085; 29th January 2017 at 12:21 AM.
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post #3 of 30 Old 29th January 2017, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt7085 View Post
If the car already had super sprint headers then this issue should have been there already without a tune. You probably have a tune.

Definitely need a tune when primaries are removed. Secondaries just mitigate the smell a bit but they do not 'really' play a role in lambda (AFR) control. Get a tune or verify whether it had one already. Definitely will get a CEL without it and the car won't run right.

Black sparks can be a result of running very rich. Check this out:

Spark Plugs 101 ? BusTekHub
Thank you very much for the insight I have the info printed and on my wall for reference now! Just a quick update... the cylinder misfires are back this time from cylinder 1 through 5 (1,2,3,4,5)

YES!! Ionic module wil be swapped tomorrow had to leave today but will begin it tomorrow!

Also there seems to be a power loss in M mode in 3rd and 4th gear that I forgot to mention before.. happens only in M mode tho

The car runs horribly now we are back to the gas vapor smell (not the same as before though)

I am preparing a list of all item to go through one by one... Back to basics.

Started of with the ignition part will also check the fuel and compression/timing check list.

I was wondering what it can be to many ifs and buts! Also the codes generated were same as above P00... codes. More updates to follow
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post #4 of 30 Old 30th January 2017, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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DAY 3

So today scanned the beast and had an array of errors but was moving the different coils and spark plugs etc etc... It ran like crap anyways cleared the codes and read the car again and now misfire codes for cyl 4,5,6,8,9 So will change out the coils with new ones along with the spark plugs.

When removing the spark from cylinder 5 we found it was wet and suspecting the misfire for the cause ... more updates to follow

Also the rich running condition might be due to the tune (or the lack of it) thinking of getting the Fast Attack Motorsports tune let us see first to solve this misfire isse....
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post #5 of 30 Old 31st January 2017, 02:10 AM
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post #6 of 30 Old 31st January 2017, 02:40 AM
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Any vanos system codes? When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced? Change engine oil and examine filter thoroughly.

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post #7 of 30 Old 31st January 2017, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I would do a compression test just to make sure first.
Hey Bucky thanks for your constant help brother <3 haha. Well I did a valve leak test for 8 of the cylinder Cyl 5 and 10 were hard (Its my first time doing this I am still learning) but the 8 cylinders I tested were within tolerance levels wrote the values down somewhere but they werent far apart. The tool I have no does not fit in the tiny space above cyl 5 and 10 and the wet spark plug was found on cyl 5 so waiting for a friend to borrow his more flexible compression test tool.

As for the injectors I had given then to Bosch for a refurb and any fault would have been reported but came back A ok (But will check the report they gave just to make sure)

New sparks are coming in and new coils too and did I mention already changed one ionic module from the first bad site this splitting of misfires is driving me crazy.

I have to first do a compression test to rule out 5 and 10 and then replace all the nice little spark plugs and coils and then go from there. But MAN DOES MY CAR SMELL LIKE FUEL its unbearable its like the injectors are bloody stuck open and car is just dumping out fuel.

Anyways I was searching around the board and came across an interesting post about charcoal filter also causing misfires due to vacuum creation but will have rule out ignition components before moving to fuel components. Guess we will have to wait.

On top of that I have a mini cooper s JCW with a coolant loss so guess what the head is off , but honestly IDC about it I want my BEAST BACK cryingcryingcrying cryingcryingcryingcrying:c ryingcryingcrying
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post #8 of 30 Old 31st January 2017, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
I would do a compression test just to make sure first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban Grullon View Post
Any vanos system codes? When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced? Change engine oil and examine filter thoroughly.
Hey Esteban. Brother I have no Vanos related codes, pressure is at 80 BAR.. recently changed the inlet and outlet gears and set the timing. Right after this car ran fine with no codes and then BAM LIMP MODE ON and MY HAPPINESS GONE. (It was still running RICH AS HELL---fuel smell that could kill if the windows are open)

But as said like any good detective I am letting the codes guide me to the problem and not going crazy part swapping.

When I got the car there were exhaust leaks as well in the pipes (where the secondary cats were removed) Could this cause a problem by sucking in air? Curious (and a noob)
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post #9 of 30 Old 1st February 2017, 05:21 AM
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Hmm odd. What about fueling? Have you checked/replaced anything related to?

Exhaust leaks won't cause any issues post oxygen sensors, anything pre can cause either fuel trim errors or catalytic converter code depending where the leak is.

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post #10 of 30 Old 1st February 2017, 04:02 PM
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I would double check your injectors, it depends how they were tested.
If the test was just a flow test at 100% duty its not going to show a bad injector.

This is a really bad injector of mine when it went bad. Car ran like sh1t and white smoke out of the exhaust, mis-fires and cylinder shut down on all cylinders.

https://youtu.be/CjzGjo8Bvp4
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