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E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

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post #31 of 263 Old 15th July 2016, 08:20 PM
lawsonsdl
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Second this opinion. Thanks Jim! We are blessed to have you!

2009 CARBON BLACK E60 ///M5
*Eisenmann Sport Exhaust (oval tips)
*AFE Pro Dry-S Air Filters
*RPI Ram-Air Intake Scoops
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*BSW Center Channel speaker

*Dension Gateway 500
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post #32 of 263 Old 15th July 2016, 11:04 PM
drewTT
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Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
Hey guys, thought I'd address a couple of things here:

So Randy is testing the SMG mods for me and he's on round 1 of the changes. To go in greater detail, there are numerous 2D maps associated with the SMG shift characteristics in the DME as well as a *ton* of single byte variables and constants. Much what is done is also handled by PID control and some of the parameters that feed that are handled in the DME. So, by modifying these, we can control some of the characteristics of how the SMG shifts.

I think what many people don't realize about the mss65 and all modern BMW DMEs is they operate on a "torque model". What I mean by that is the DME actually knows how much torque the engine is putting out and what loads to the engine are consuming that torque. This is necessary to provide the level of integration we see on these cars and even more so in their current day offerings with hybrid drivetrains having more than one torque production means.

In order for the DSC/ABS to interact with the DME and provide their functions, they actually request torque increases(!) and decreases via the PT-CAN bus directly from the DME. The DME takes into account the driver's requested torque (from here on out, consider it a torque pedal and not a gas pedal), the torque requested by the cruise control, the torque requested by the DSC (positive or negative), the torque needed to drive the alternator and AC compressor (yes, the actually talk to the DME and communicate this), and finally, the most obvious, the torque applied to the SMG. All you 6MT guys can tune out here (pun intended) for the SMG part, but everything else is the same.

For the longest time, we all understood the to properly shift, the SMG had to match RPM on the layshaft side and flywheel side of the clutch. We hear this on downshifts, we know the DME/SMG do it, but there is so much more to it than that. If you think carefully what a MT driver must do to execute a smooth, lurch free shift, we can start to understand it a little better.

In order to shift smoothly, we need to not only match RPM on either side of the clutch a re-engagement, but we have to take into account how rapidly the vehicle is accelerating or decelerating as well. Think about that, for the smoothest acceleration to happen, ideally we want the drivetrain to put out the exact same torque to the ground on the incoming gear that the outgoing gear was. The difficulty in that is the change in torque multiplication (or division in 7th gear) that happens when changing gear ratio. This means the SMG needs to know it's acceleration rate. This is where the longitudinal sensor comes in. We've all seen it and heard of it when running the SMG adaptation process, but only vaguely understand why it's there. Quite simply, the SMG monitors longitudinal axis acceleration and does some fancy math taking into account vehicle weight (ever wonder why the M5 and M6 have different SMG flashes?), current gear ratio, etc and can determine *exactly how much torque* is being applied to the driveshaft. It doesn't care about knowing the final drive ratio, because it never has to calculate anything changing for ratio. So, in order to maintain an exact amount of longitudinal acceleration, the SMG looks at how much torque it's putting out, then looks at the gear the driver just requested, and calculates the exact amount of torque the engine should produce to maintain driveshaft torque constant when the clutch is released. Yes, the SMG actually requests a specific value in newton-meters from the DME.

Similarly, when wheel spin is detected, the DSC requests a specific newton-meter reduction in torque from the DME to reduce the slip to zero (DSC in normal) or to some given allowable slip rate (M-dynamic). Additionally, the DSC can request an increase in torque in a sliding situation and then clamp a single brake caliper on the rear to force the diff to accelerate a single wheel. Yep, all that happens via the torque model in the DME.

So, understanding the torque model allows for smoothing the SMG a few different ways. First off, how does the DME know how much torque the engine is producing? Does it have strain gages measuring torque output? A handy idea that has made its way into cycling for the last 15 years, but not to our cars (yet). No, the DME just has a plain dumb map of torque stored in it. When BMW went through the long initial calibration process for the mss65, they recorded the torque output of the engine in a 2D table. This map is then referenced by the torque model and when a specific N-m output is called for, it looks up the correct throttle plate opening for the current engine RPM.

So.

What happens when we start tuning the engine and increasing power output? Does the DME know it's more powerful? Nope. Not unless the torque maps were altered to reflect what the new engine calibration was capable of. For the most part, the effects will be minimal, but in some cases when the output is significantly increased (e.g. the 6.0 strokers), things can get a little tricky. There is also a self-check routine that if the DME believes that torque output is significantly higher than the map, something must be wrong and a safety feature kicks in and can put the DME in a limp mode.

It should be clear at this point that if anyone is still of the belief that performance tuners are just "reverse-engineering" a bunch of hex code and changing maps randomly that would be physically impossible to ever find anything useful.

All of that comes back around to the SMG modifications and a good, solid fundamental understanding of how the SMG works is essential to get the best performance out of it. Remember, BMW had to somewhat tone the car down for sale to the masses. We know it can be full on mental (S6 no-lift shifts), but a lot of improvement can be made knowing the target driver audience better.

Remember back in the day BMW claimed the SMG3 GS7S46BG could execute a gear change in 30 milliseconds? Anyone timed a no lift shift in S6? It isn't 30 msec. I was excited to see Randy's datalogs showing the ignition timing cuts there are made during a shift at WOT. This is the clearest indicator, looking at the duration of that cut. I still think there is room for improvement, but with the obvious analysis and consideration of durability and longevity.

The change Randy is testing, I'm very satisfied with, but waiting for him to accumulate some miles and incorporate his input before I make it available to everyone. Stay tuned, more to follow.
Do you still own your M5 and are you using it for development/testing?

2008 M5 SMG
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post #33 of 263 Old 15th July 2016, 11:40 PM
jcolley
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Do you still own your M5 and are you using it for development/testing?
I do and yes, just not for SMG and tuning at the moment. I'm working with a company in Greece on some engine internals and my engine bay has been empty for 8 months. Between that, a HUD dash retrofit, complete interior swap, and a bunch of other stuff, it's kind of fallen off the priority list. Then there's the E61 project...
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post #34 of 263 Old 16th July 2016, 06:14 AM
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When will you start producing those vanos valves?
I'd be interested in a pack of 4 for like $999. I'm sure a lot of others would be all over that too.
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post #35 of 263 Old 18th July 2016, 03:07 PM
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So what happens when we take out the SMG and put in a 6MT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt7085 View Post
BS. Just ordered my Colley tune. @torque and I will put you to shame as we can throw it in the next gear in 15 ms by hand. Your SMG is still sending CAN Morse code to the DME. Pfff.
lol you will still be row row rowing your boat as we SMG folk are sitting on the other end of the finish line.

- Justin

/// 2008 Space Grey M5 (SMG)
2009 Triumph Speed Triple 1050
2008 Range Rover FullFat
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post #36 of 263 Old 19th July 2016, 12:56 AM
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FAM Tune

I am a six-speed guy, but great to see Jim improving the performance and reliability of the SMG. It's all good in the end! Been long overdue. I am sure in many ways we will all reap the benefits of his engineering!
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post #37 of 263 Old 31st July 2016, 01:57 AM
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Just ordered your tune jcolley, am from the UK. Been hesitant to make the leap for a tune but after reading comments I thought why the hell not you know these motors 👍

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post #38 of 263 Old 31st July 2016, 04:31 AM
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post #39 of 263 Old 31st July 2016, 03:49 PM
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I ran Jims tune at the track today on race fuel and pulled this

Wow. Better start loading mine today! It laying around on my dinner table.
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post #40 of 263 Old 31st July 2016, 06:13 PM
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Watching grass grow while the DME is sending its files in Morse code.

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Last edited by rt7085; 31st July 2016 at 06:25 PM.
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