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post #101 of 325 Old 17th October 2016, 07:42 PM
Slippery
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post #102 of 325 Old 18th October 2016, 02:07 AM
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Hi Slippery,
A long wait at Customs indeed!! Donít wait to receive the letter to notifying you of the Customs charge. I tracked the parcel to my local sorting office, went there, paid the charge and picked it up. That Track Day----still surprised how you took off on that straight with a stock engine----perhaps it was more the driverís skill! I can visit you for a stock versus FAMS Tune sprint----you will not stand a chance, sir:lol. Tune up and we can do one more fun Track Day before the floods and ice come!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
Another update today: 1. Tune and Sprint Booster. 2. Fuel consumption.

Tune and Sprint Booster:
There have been juicy debates/threads about SB, I agree that it is a personal choice. For me, I wonít own any car stock or tuned, without SB. I get no increase in power but I like that I donít need to hit the throttle hard and long in order to get a kick. One of the questions I therefore asked Jim before buying the FAMS tune was how useful the SB would be after loading the tune. He confirmed he alters the throttle maps as part of his tune but I should switch off the SB and drive the car for a few days to get used to the tune. I could then decide if to keep or ditch it. My first test drive was with SB switched off and you can see from my post yesterday how happy I was with the results.

I did another drive today with the SB switched On, I use the SB on Red/highest setting all the time and would be able to notice a difference. Complete madness Love the tune with SB on too! With the altered throttle maps, and SB On, the car is just more responsive, alert, power is delivered at low and high revs quickly with minimal effort on the throttle/pedal. Most importantly, it is more fun for me to drive. Iím slightly torn: I donít need the SB with the FAMS tune but I love it with the FAMS tune! My choice, I already have it, Iím keeping it.

Fuel Consumption:
On the long drives Iíve done since the tune, I've used the same motorway/highway route, no traffic, same distance. I always burn the same quarter tank of fuel for the 65 mile trip. On my euro trips, on P500 Sport semi-hard driving, I get between 260/270 miles per tank every time, so the figures over the past three days make sense to me.
I have not seen an increase in fuel consumption since the tune and my average MPG is the same. Expected 20/25HP gain on stock though varies from car to car, but no need for me to do DINO, I definitely feel the increased power. I'm not technical enough on this but I will do more driving because I think if no increase in fuel consumption, there could be a decrease, highly unlikely to be 'the same', especially considering more torque and how quickly the upshifts now come.
Can a tune give better fuel economy, Yes. Have I seen a higher fuel consumption so far, No. Would I be unhappy if I see a higher fuel consumption, No---because I like the fun I get from driving the beast, I have not left it alone in 3 days and 230 miles

Hope others continue to give reviews, I'm keen to read and learn.
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post #103 of 325 Old 18th October 2016, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Slippery View Post
My bad!

The wait is killing me lol
I know how the waiting feels lol, it be worth the wait

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post #104 of 325 Old 19th October 2016, 03:53 AM
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Fast Attack Motorsports (FAMS) Tune Review - Dyno &amp; Datalogs

Well...I have been in the BMW scene for over 20 years. I am neutral when it comes to tunes, but, the only dyno we see is the OPs. I am a big huge facts type guy. Comparisons and real data. I just did a comparison with my video below with the 2 videos posted earlier. There are quite a few tuners out there. Some are good and some bad. What really is going on is that they all steal each others tune, do a minor modification and call it a tune. The real marketing and competitiveness is when you compare tunes, dyno days etc. Check out the video on youtube on the battle of the M5s with mods and different tunes to see the difference, great videos. Most tuners just adjust the throttle response, same thing what a Sprint booster can do with no true gains. Just a but dyno due to the sensitivity of the pedal. Look, I'm not here to bash, belittle nor biased, but here is a video with my M5 below with sprint booster, gutted cats, corsa Exhaust, RPI Scoops and SMG Euro flash, stock tune!!! I played both youtube videos simultaneously and played them with mines and compared them playing at the same time, you'd think a tuned M5 would be quickest as the claim is to be an outstanding tune, well here you can really see a difference. Sorry, but on the 2 videos posted earlier, the youtube links, I also did a comparison and it was eeehh less than a second difference.

Don't mean to troll as you younger guys call it, just want to see real data on a good dyno that knows how to run them rollers on the SMG on 6th gear which is the 1:1 ratio or 5th which os acceptable. Not 4th where the ratio is 1:39 (big difference) and it's obvious that it'll deceive anyone that doesn't know much about these ///Ms with the dyno sheet. Come on guys, Nothing personal, strictly business.

Here is a bit of eye candy

Just a normal day going to work.


60 roll with M4



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Last edited by BMTROUBLEYOU; 19th October 2016 at 03:57 AM.
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post #105 of 325 Old 19th October 2016, 04:22 AM
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There's a bit of truth in that statement, there is much similarity in this industry. Then again there are only so many things you can modify on a NA engine to gain power. Cam timing to improve volumetric efficiency, Lambda targets for AFR, and timing targets at various load ranges. Aside from that, there are no miracles to be had. On the subject of modifying throttle pedal mapping, you might be surprised that almost no tuners touch this area, in any of the three distinct maps. I know I was. The factory mapping is absurd and one of the first things most people want to change, hence the popularity of the SB, etc.

As for dynos, IMO if you're comparing numbers from a non-hub driven dyno from one car/day/tune to the other, you won't get anything close to a quantitative measurement. Does anyone log tire temperatures during their dyno runs to quantify for roller slippage? Account for accurate ambient temps and airflow? Not usually. I abhor dynos in general, because the point of performance tuning is, as you mentioned, real world performance. 1/4 mile times if your'e into that, consistent power delivery lap after lap, Vbox data, etc.

Tuning via dyno is a bit hit and miss as well as you're making modifications based on pretty much nothing qualitative, then seeing whether or not the change made more or less power. And that also is rarely done on a consistent, repeatable, hub dyno.

In support of your argument though, very few are still pushing new boundaries with the mss65. Ask any tuner how much time they've spent in IDA Pro with mss65 dumps. Ask what combustion pressure datalogging system they use. Ask them if they know how to clone the DME or "virginize" it for use in another vehicle. EWS delete? Ask them if they can improve VANOS response time. 99% will tell you no/none. The mss65 is in the past for them and no longer a significant profit target to aim at. The additional power gained is not worth it and they've all shifted to focus on the FI offerings where BMW used the same engine in multiple performance level vehicles.

It's sad, but the gist of what you posted is true; there are many "tuners" out there who just copy and sell. You'd be surprised to know that some have even done no more than alter Lambda targets or repackage an OEM calibration from Europe with no modifications. Honestly, that's why I even started down this road, I don't like people mucking around with things they aren't willing to explain to me, so I started figuring it out myself. 4 years later, this was the result.

Make no mistake, there is a massive number of products for our cars designed for one purpose: improving revenues. My goal is to bring something different than that.
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post #106 of 325 Old 19th October 2016, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
There's a bit of truth in that statement, there is much similarity in this industry. Then again there are only so many things you can modify on a NA engine to gain power. Cam timing to improve volumetric efficiency, Lambda targets for AFR, and timing targets at various load ranges. Aside from that, there are no miracles to be had. On the subject of modifying throttle pedal mapping, you might be surprised that almost no tuners touch this area, in any of the three distinct maps. I know I was. The factory mapping is absurd and one of the first things most people want to change, hence the popularity of the SB, etc.

As for dynos, IMO if you're comparing numbers from a non-hub driven dyno from one car/day/tune to the other, you won't get anything close to a quantitative measurement. Does anyone log tire temperatures during their dyno runs to quantify for roller slippage? Account for accurate ambient temps and airflow? Not usually. I abhor dynos in general, because the point of performance tuning is, as you mentioned, real world performance. 1/4 mile times if your'e into that, consistent power delivery lap after lap, Vbox data, etc.

Tuning via dyno is a bit hit and miss as well as you're making modifications based on pretty much nothing qualitative, then seeing whether or not the change made more or less power. And that also is rarely done on a consistent, repeatable, hub dyno.

In support of your argument though, very few are still pushing new boundaries with the mss65. Ask any tuner how much time they've spent in IDA Pro with mss65 dumps. Ask what combustion pressure datalogging system they use. Ask them if they know how to clone the DME or "virginize" it for use in another vehicle. EWS delete? Ask them if they can improve VANOS response time. 99% will tell you no/none. The mss65 is in the past for them and no longer a significant profit target to aim at. The additional power gained is not worth it and they've all shifted to focus on the FI offerings where BMW used the same engine in multiple performance level vehicles.

It's sad, but the gist of what you posted is true; there are many "tuners" out there who just copy and sell. You'd be surprised to know that some have even done no more than alter Lambda targets or repackage an OEM calibration from Europe with no modifications. Honestly, that's why I even started down this road, I don't like people mucking around with things they aren't willing to explain to me, so I started figuring it out myself. 4 years later, this was the result.

Make no mistake, there is a massive number of products for our cars designed for one purpose: improving revenues. My goal is to bring something different than that.
I respect your answer! You seem to know your stuff, most don't look into the little things. I am in the market for a tune on my M5. However, I want some bang for my buck. I have a Turbo E46 M3.... X5M and my E60 M5 that I love driving. I am pretty sure you saw my post on the Bren tuning advertisement thread. I am doing my homework and have a couple tuners in mind, and by your response, I am digging your style. The deal is I am a facts guy, a realistic type dude that wants to see results. Unfortunately the youtube video the individual posted really didn't impress me, I did a side by side with his stock and tuned video, and a side by side with the tuned video and my video and you can see a big difference after 3rd gear, at the end I am 2 gears ahead. I know, I am not just going off of just videos but dang, it could of been at least close, try it and see what I am talking about, probably the guy didn't let it adapt long enough as it'll take a bit for the ECU to adjust. I know my bimmers very well as I have built and modded quite a few in my lifetime. I see the OP is happy with his tune, No offense to OP and anyone here (with all due respect) but anyone that really doesn't have much to compare and is a first time BMW guy or coming from another scene will be awed and super impressed with any modification tune butt dyno feel done to their M5. I do race illegally in the streets here in TX with my fleet,...., not a 1/4 mile type guy and well known in the BMW community worldwide. In the Bren thread I asked a couple questions inquiring about a series of mods done and requests for my M5, I ask you the same if you can PM me when available. I'd really appreciate your response. Thanks!

Next mod also will be the flex fuel kit for M5. already in the works.

V/R
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post #107 of 325 Old 19th October 2016, 06:06 AM
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I started with BMWs and Porsches in the 1980s. I have always been skeptical of tunes as well. I've had about 300,000+ miles of seat time in multiple generations of ///m5s on the street and the track. I don't need a dyno to tell me my s85 is faster. Current mods are in my signature.

s85(FAMS 91 tune) v. p85d

Video proves absolutely nothing...other than it's fun to mess with Teslas. I even gave him the run twice and was purposely slow before I got on the gas. Password: fossilfuels



My old tune was a mild Dinan Stage I that was not tuned for any of my mods. Here I am beating an Evolve Stage III SMG in my afterthought-6MT. I was trapping at 146 in the 1/2 mile that day on 91 pump gas.



This is a slow roll, short shifting below 8500, on FAMS tune, if anyone wants to compare.








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~Woody

///M The ///Most Expensive Letter in the Alphabet
Driving Concepts Competition Racing School
s85 + (afterthought) 6mt =133,000 miles with no RCOD and counting ...just saying...

2007 e60 m5 6MT Interlagos Blue; DINAN 3.91 Exploded @8x,xxx ; Performance Gearing (Blanton) 3.91 LSD 3 clutch, 30/50 ramps, R&P polished ; RPi Oil Cooler/Scoops; DINAN High Flow Air Mass Meter/Intake, DINAN strut, DINAN Monoballs, FastAttack Tune, w/Kung Fu grip!, Einhorn Industries Race Jedders, track pipe, and x-pipe; DINAN Section 3, DINAN LTW 19x9 ET18, 19x10 ET25, Michelin PSS 255/40/19 and 295/35/19, Macht Schnell 15mm spacers (front); FERODO FRP3000H race pads; StopTech BBK 6/4 380mm/35mm x 380mm/32mm w/SS lines; RDSport F/R sways; CKS coils w/swift springs, -2.0/-2.5 F/R camber; z3 1.9L SSK, with f10 shifter; RedLine B/S RDR off, F/R G1W-H, ALP w/GPS and BT. SprintBooster v3; Euro MDM and DSC off. Fluids: Motul 7100 4T 10w60, Redline ShockProof Lightweight 75w140, Castrol SRF, Unicorn Jizz and Wolfpack Blood; Rod bearings replaced at 84,000 miles!!

1988 e28 m5 STROKER 420bhp 91 octane(Paul Burke s38b39); VAC LTW flywheel; MegaSquirt G2 DME; Euro RestoMod track car: caged, 6 point FIA harness, FIA Sabelt GT-160 seats...AC/heater, interior, sunroof, rear seat delete; Euro Headers, dump valve, and race cats; z3 1.9L ssk and ZHP shifter; custom Ground Control Coilovers/camber plates; Mason Engineering front/rear strut bars; Brembo 6/4 BBK; 17x8 BBS RK w/Dunlop StarSpec II; undergoing Euro restoration, building the sub 2,400lb e28 CSL ///Motorsport never built. 5.71lbs/hp

1996 FZJ 80; LOCKED; Factory TRD Supercharger; Expo/Overland/Backcountry Rig; custom sleeper/drawer system, full rock armor, 33"s on 2.5" OME Heavy Lift; Rigid LEDs F/R; 228,000 miles and counting.
2008 Audi A3 S-Line Quattro w/flappy paddles (Mammoth Mountain Commuter)
2000 e39 m5 TiAg (Gone, but not forgotten) sold 7/2014 to a good home.

The Indys that I trust for all my Beasts' needs: oceansidemotorsports.com my local physician for service autohausfrankfurt.com/ my local Dinan supplier trinityautosport.com my local drug dealer for my crack habit
fastattackmotorsports.com because JColley!

~I FRACKING!
~Viva La Wolfpack!

Last edited by Fiftytwoeighty; 19th October 2016 at 06:45 AM.
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post #108 of 325 Old 20th October 2016, 03:40 AM
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Not sure you can get a better tune for this engine then Jims aka FAMS.. As a tuner, knowing the ins and outs of the engine, rather then just knowing that this is a safe AFR or this a safe timing to run, is alot more important. The tune end result is much better! That is what we have here with FAMS, Jim not only knows every single part of these cars, engines, trans, but the why, what, where, how, etc.

2009 ///M5
Evolve Alpha-N Stage 2 Flash Tune | Eventuri Intake Kit | Supersprint Full F1 70MM-Xpipe-Catless
OEM Alcantara tri-stitch steering wheel|LUX H8 160 Angel eyes|Osram CBI's
IND Black Gloss Fender Vents|IND Painted Side Markers
Satin Black OEM wheels |Michelin PSS |30% Tint|LED License Plate lights
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post #109 of 325 Old 20th October 2016, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BMTROUBLEYOU View Post
I respect your answer! You seem to know your stuff, most don't look into the little things. I am in the market for a tune on my M5. However, I want some bang for my buck. I have a Turbo E46 M3.... X5M and my E60 M5 that I love driving. I am pretty sure you saw my post on the Bren tuning advertisement thread. I am doing my homework and have a couple tuners in mind, and by your response, I am digging your style. The deal is I am a facts guy, a realistic type dude that wants to see results. Unfortunately the youtube video the individual posted really didn't impress me, I did a side by side with his stock and tuned video, and a side by side with the tuned video and my video and you can see a big difference after 3rd gear, at the end I am 2 gears ahead. I know, I am not just going off of just videos but dang, it could of been at least close, try it and see what I am talking about, probably the guy didn't let it adapt long enough as it'll take a bit for the ECU to adjust. I know my bimmers very well as I have built and modded quite a few in my lifetime. I see the OP is happy with his tune, No offense to OP and anyone here (with all due respect) but anyone that really doesn't have much to compare and is a first time BMW guy or coming from another scene will be awed and super impressed with any modification tune butt dyno feel done to their M5. I do race illegally in the streets here in TX with my fleet,...., not a 1/4 mile type guy and well known in the BMW community worldwide. In the Bren thread I asked a couple questions inquiring about a series of mods done and requests for my M5, I ask you the same if you can PM me when available. I'd really appreciate your response. Thanks!

Next mod also will be the flex fuel kit for M5. already in the works.

V/R
Bmtroubleyou
I unfortunately haven't had a chance to go to any race events since I got the FAMS tune (I'm not a big dyno #'s guy, I prefer real world performance comparisons), but I am 100% sure my car with FAMS tune is faster compared to my previous Evolve tune, given all other mods are equal. I've done datalogging on the same roads, almost the same ambient air conditions, and have gotten faster datalogging times from the same mph to mph pulls. Hence, why I'm confident my car is faster with the FAMS tune compared to before. I wanted to dyno my previous Evolve tune with the same mods at the dyno day I setup, but unfortunately that didn't pan out due to time constraints. And as Jim mentioned above, it wouldn't be an apples-to-apples comparison. I can just say that from a drivability, enjoyment, and butt dyno POV, the FAMS is just night and day compared to my old tune. I've flashed back to my Evolve tune recently just for kicks and I immediately missed the FAMS tune.

I've posted many times on the forums of my previous race videos (with Evolve tune) at Shift S3ctor 1/2 mile race events where I have beaten an ESS VT2-650 6MT E60 M5 (multiple times although I don't have videos of our numerous highway pulls), a GTR (from a dig), 997tt (from a dig), FBO M4, BMS 335i, other FBO M5s, etc. Here are some my previous recent Shift S3ctor threads which have these videos.

Videos from 4.23.16 Shift S3ctor Airstrip Attack California 1/2 Mile Drag Race

Videos from 10.24.15 Shift S3ctor Airstrip Attack California 1/2 Mile Drag Race

Videos & Pictures from Shift S3ctor AA7 1/2 Mile Race Event 10.25.14

2008 Space Gray M5

Performance: Infinity Design Equal Length Long Tubular Headers (ceramic coated) | Supersprint 70mm Sec. 1 w/ Dinan 4" Resonators & 70mm Sec. 2 X-Pipe | Dinan: Free Flow Sec. 3 Mufflers, 13% Underdrive Pulley, Throttle Bodies | Evolve Eventuri Intakes | Fast Attack Motorsports AlphaN Tune | 3.91 LSD | RPI SV1 Oil Cooler
Suspension: Bilstein B16 EDC Coilovers | Dinan: FRC, CF F&R Strut Bars, Monoballs | 11" Bimmerworld Adjustable FSB End Links | RDSport RSB
Exterior: Vorsteiner: Molded 2-piece CF Splitters, CF Rear Diffuser, CF Trunk Spoiler | BMW Performance Kidney Grills | iND Painted Gloss Black Side Grills | Painted Bumper Reflectors
Interior: EuroBoutique Custom Steering Wheel | iND Alcantara E-Brake Boot | BMW Performance E-Brake Handle | Dinan Aluminum Pedals | BAVSOUND Stage One Speakers & Ghost Subwoofers
Lighting: LUX H8 160 Angel Eye LEDs | WeissLicht Smoked-out Sidemarker & License Plate LEDs | GP Thunder 45 LED Turn Signals | BMW OEM Interior LEDs
Brakes: StopTech Trophy Kit 380mm Slotted
Wheels (street): 20" HRE P43SC in Gloss Bronze 20x9"et+9, 20x10.5"et+28 w/ Michelin PSS 255/35/20 & 295/30/20
Wheels (track): 18" HRE R40 in Brushed Titanium 18x9"et+17 w/ TMS 12.5mm spacers, 18x10.5"et+28 w/ Toyo R888 245/40/18 & 275/35/18
Misc: Hardwired V1 | Euro SMG & Custom Coding


Luxury, Class, Speed: Randyís E60 M5
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post #110 of 325 Old 20th October 2016, 12:55 PM
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