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True Equal Length Headers (Long Tube) -BMW S85 for E60/E61/E63/E6

105K views 323 replies 81 participants last post by  InfinityDesign 
#1 · (Edited)
BMW S85 100% True Equal Length Stainless Steel Tubular Headers Information


Hello to All M5board members,

First post under this user name but one of thousands on this forum.

This is an introductory post with regards to a new header that will be coming to the market very soon.

As per the title, the product is a long tube header but with special focus on the equal primary pipe length across all cylinders.

At present there is only one header on the market which is close to equal length and it's one that costs nearly $8,000. A very competent design.

Having been involved in header development over the last 10 years and supplying many M5board members with previously worked on S85 headers, we decided to take the S85 header after market a little further.

Unequal length headers always have one downside which is the exhaust pulses are now unequal with respect to time.
This changes the exhaust note somewhat. Designs with short lengths which are very equal can give a 'V8' engine tone.
The closer you go to equal length but still well off and you begin to get a more of a 'Twin 5 Cylinder' or 'Off - Beat' 10 Cylinder sound.

This, to my surprise put many people off buying headers and it was clear that people wanted to retain the F1 Style V10 sound track which the original headers give which happen to be almost 100% equal length.

Also, you then have the power band. Equal length headers in theory can give a little more power at high rpm due to the exact pulse tuning which in turn creates a scavenging effect. However through experience we have seen the actual different in 'peak power' is very little and not worth noting. It depends form engine to engine but on high capacity BMW engines we found many times it made little difference to peak power.

However, there was a different through the rpm band where the equal length headers would deliver more torque. In dyno graph talk there is more are under the curve. In real world driving condition way better throttle response and torque/power in the lower and mid rpm's.

So without doubt, even if there is no tangible gain at peak power, if there is a gain where there is more power available in the most driven part of the RPM band then 100% equal length is well worth investing in especially as it will also meet the demands of those who want to retain the fantastic F1 style V10 noise.

The next ambition was to hit a price point which is gives actual value for money rather than charging a huge premium because it's a 'BMW M Power car'. In other words, we do not charge the BMW tax.

We use :
T304 16 gauge seamless Stainless Steel which is internally polished.
TIG weld (Argon gas purged) every joint.
CNC machined stainless steel flanges

So far we have achieved near enough 100% equal length. Both bank 1 and 2 cylinder are all within 1 inch of each other and that's very good going for a header this complex to fit into an area which is not very accommodating.

Pictures of the design will be posted with the development progress/jigs/tooling as soon as we finish the F1 style merge collector.

The layout is extremely compact with provision to access all of the header flange nuts, just like the original design. Some header designs are extremely difficult to fit due to lack of access to bolts. Having fitted many headers, this is a very very important aspect of the design. The last thing you want is to invite frustration for the fitter and make the product as easy to install as possible. Saves the end user labour time further economising the product as a whole with respect to total layout.

We already know the amount of stainless steel, materials which will be used and the welding time per pair of headers.
We calculated the production price very accurately based on experience and the prototype.
We WILL make this an outstanding product at a very very reasonable price. Let's just say south of $3000 and it will tick every box in every way. World class TIG welding / Build quality / Fitment with what everyone wants, 100% Equal length to retain the F1 sound and enhance torque at the lower-mid rpm's.
We are also already working on a CATTED version which does meet emissions and makes sure the emissions OBDII readiness checks are passed.
DME tuning is something that many people on this forum and many forums alike have benefited from us through another past venture.

At this point we cannot give out company contact information as we would first like to sponsor the forum and not upset the current sponsors.
Once we give out information it automatically generates interest and we get free advertising which is used which irritating for the previous position.

Thanks for Reading and we will continue to update this thread.

Pictures will follow soon and it will all start getting much more interesting. There will be independent testing done most likely by one of the M5board members.
 
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#2 ·
Hello,

We welcome new products and innovations to the community, but please be mindful of the forum rules. Commercial activity by vendors and manufacturers is restricted by forum policy to sponsoring vendors. I will forward your info to one of the Admin/Sales team at AutoGuide/Vertical Scope if you are interested.

Again, we always welcome innovation and new products and look forward to what you have to offer.
 
#5 ·
Interested...I currently have the Evolve LTH and would be willing to possibly purchase these and do a comparison. I previously had Evolve Race-R headers so I would be able to give a review of all 3 variants.
 
#12 ·
True Equal Length Headers

Welcome. Glad to see some one is pursuing advancing the header option for our beasts but does not stick a gun in your ribs and takes your money. I am interested in staying emissions compliant yet still have the benefits of an improved header. Looking forward to the introduction and test results. Thanks!:applause:
 
#13 ·
Cant wait to see/hear the results! Subbed!
 
#19 ·
headers

long tubes that retain v10 sound? I'm in. sound is the only reason i didn't go long tube to begin with, settled with decatted stock.
 
#22 ·
Images are being processed.

Otherwise final prototype is almost ready.

It should be being fitted to a car with a pre and post independent dyno session with data logging within the next 4-8 weeks.

We have been putting some more thought into the CATTED version and it's very easy to do with the way we have laid out the pipes. However, how effective the CAT is really depends on the manufacturer of the CAT, it's quality and it's functionality levels within this project. If the CEL light appears for 'increased emissions' then you will need to live with a more expensive version for no reason.

The CAT version has to be fully tested in places like California and the US / Canada. The readiness testing and tail pipe testing and sometimes both is something I had a huge amount of experience in when tuning cars all over the world.

So we really need to make sure it's something that works. If the power gain is say compromised with a CAT which really does pass emissions properly then again it's not a product worth developing unless there is a minimum of 20hp gained which is what it takes to notice a power gain on a heavy car like the E60/E63 and especially E64.
 
#26 ·
Great to see new products coming out for the s85!! :thumbup:
 
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