interesting article on BMW design - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

MEnthusiast · 18th November 2003, 19:49

http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...2ec_bmwdesign/

of interest is I find myself agreeing with both those who say: what is BMW doing?! and with those saying: the chages are good!

what does that mean? that I am comfortable with the old BMW but maybe I can appreciate what they are doing now and in the future. I think this is the big dilemma facing the fans. I also think the biggest dilemma facing BMW is not the styling, but the idrive system. it can be refined, but I think it needs revision at its base concept: 1 controller for all functions doesnt work.

M Macht · 19th November 2003, 05:12

Jerry,

Interesting article. If nothing else the new BMW design direction is controversial. Who is correct? I don't know. The market place will decide. Personally, as much as I like the E39 and E46 designs, I also like the new design direction (especailly the new 6 series---> ?E61 if I am not mistaken). It has been said many times that the only constant in life is change and this certainly applies to the automobile industry. "Stasis" or staying with the current designs is not an option given the competion from Audi and especially the "dark side". While some BMW loyalists may be turned off, perhaps the designs will bring in new converts to the fold. Time will tell.

sin · 19th November 2003, 07:09

I am not a fanatic of the new BMWs but I love the looks of the new Mercedeces and Audis however I would never consider buying one. Why? Because I love to drive cars, not be driven by one.

Rave E55 · 19th November 2003, 08:06

Who wants to bet me money that within 5 years BMW will do a complete 180 and change the designs in a major way. I am sure this will turn out to be the biggest blunder in German automotive history (if not the entire Worlds).

AC_$chnitzer · 19th November 2003, 13:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Rave E55
Who wants to bet me money that within 5 years BMW will do a complete 180 and change the designs in a major way. I am sure this will turn out to be the biggest blunder in German automotive history (if not the entire Worlds).

I am sure it will still own the mercedes

MEnthusiast · 19th November 2003, 15:02

Great comments everyone!

I think the code numbers for the 6er is E63 for the coupe and E64 for the cabrio.

I often wonder if BMW knew it would alienate its traditional customers as much as it seems. But the first thing to do is to find out if my statement preceeding is correct- has BMW actually alienated its traditional customers? If we ask here, I am sure the answer will be yes. Yet, 2 of my neighbors had E38 7s and now have E65 7s! They surely werent alienated (although both gripe about... yes, you guessed it- idrive).

I wonder if the next generation BMWs will return to a more traditional styling or continue the "avant-guarde" styling. I can see "evidence" of both. On the one hand, we know the 5 was delayed for restyling and that it was supposed to have the 7 series rear end. And the new styling has bothered many BMW traditionalists. On the other hand- Chris Bangle has said in interviews (including this one) that he hopes BMW continues to put out cutting edge designs.

my take on this is: design is subjective. Personally, I dont love it. I always felt BMWs were like a nice Armani suit- nicely put together, and understated. Thats exactly the sense I get when I sit in the M5 with the caramel interior. The new designs seem much more Versace- loud, wild, even a little nuts. Both are valid designs so long as they sell. While I dont love the Versace direction, BMW really had to make a change as they were being copied by nearly everyone.

And I should say, I actually like the new 5's exterior- I just dont like the interior very much.

I think most people will adjust to the new BMW designs. I do no think the same can be said of idrive. most people dont know how to seet their vcrs- nevermind learning how to use a computer that runs their car. If BMW put in more buttons, that would be perfect, but it would show how futile the idrive concept is- because the system that was supposed to do away with buttons was responsible for bringing them back. For proof that buttons are better, just look at the praise the Mini's interior gets- everyone says- its so easy to use. Take a look at the success of Mini. But thats just my take.

vndkshn · 19th November 2003, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Rave E55
Who wants to bet me money that within 5 years BMW will do a complete 180 and change the designs in a major way. I am sure this will turn out to be the biggest blunder in German automotive history (if not the entire Worlds).

I'll take that bet. Especially considering BMWs vocal support of Bangle and the current design team, the upcoming 6, the upcoming 3/4, etc.

Sure, in 5 years the 7 will be redesigned (roughly 5 years figuring 7 year cycle), and the 5 will have had an update. But "major" redesign, no way. Look at how well they are selling. There are no e60s available in my area, and there is a list for the ones coming in. In fact, there are boatloads of 3 series just sitting on the lot, cars that have been there for many months already.

BobRod · 19th November 2003, 16:26

BMW is conducting a very expensive experiment at the interface of business and design. It will be interesting to see the results five years out. I've done my share of complaining about the new fiver, and my first viewing in the flesh yesterday hasn't changed my opinion. However, many appear to like the design. Time, and money, will tell.

vndkshn · 19th November 2003, 16:32

Quote:

Originally posted by MEnthusiast

I often wonder if BMW knew it would alienate its traditional customers as much as it seems. But the first thing to do is to find out if my statement preceeding is correct- has BMW actually alienated its traditional customers? If we ask here, I am sure the answer will be yes. Yet, 2 of my neighbors had E38 7s and now have E65 7s! They surely werent alienated (although both gripe about... yes, you guessed it- idrive).

I wonder if the next generation BMWs will return to a more traditional styling or continue the "avant-guarde" styling. I can see "evidence" of both.

my take on this is: design is subjective.

I think most people will adjust to the new BMW designs.

Well said ME. BMW definately alienated a segment of their "traditional" customers, but then again, define traditional. By traditional, I assume you mean existing. I think part of their design mentality was to attract new customers and grow the business and not just support upgrades. I have always felt that BMW attracted a unique group of drivers. Was the E39 understated? Absolutely, and that made it sexy. But I think in some ways that hurt the car. Especially since the design was very.. traditional... and easily copied. And in some respects, very bland.

As for future designs, what I think we will see is a better blend of avant-guarde and "traditional" styling. I think the E60 is the first step. For me, the 6 swings wildly towards avant-guarde, while the 5 meets somewhat closer to the middle.

And definately more people will "adjust" to the new designs. I think all it will take is seeing them in traffic more. Right now, we have seen pics of the E60, and at dealerships, but not many on the road. For me, seeing the 7s on the road more did it. I am still "adjusting" to the Z4, but I am getting there, no question about it. I already like it alot more than the Z3.

Rave E55 · 19th November 2003, 18:01

Quote:

Originally posted by vndkshn
I'll take that bet. Especially considering BMWs vocal support of Bangle and the current design team, the upcoming 6, the upcoming 3/4, etc.

Sure, in 5 years the 7 will be redesigned (roughly 5 years figuring 7 year cycle), and the 5 will have had an update. But "major" redesign, no way. Look at how well they are selling. There are no e60s available in my area, and there is a list for the ones coming in. In fact, there are boatloads of 3 series just sitting on the lot, cars that have been there for many months already.

Bet is on, how much and who will hold our money for 5 years?
Please don't misunderstand me, I used to be a huge BMW fan, owned a 01 M5, I hated to make the switch, but had no choice, I hate the new designs and refuse to drive something I don't like.

vndkshn · 19th November 2003, 21:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Rave E55
who will hold our money for 5 years?

Good question!

I just don't see them ditching their current direction, definately not within 5 years. You actually think that with the 7 just two years old (or is it 3 now?), the 5 just a few months, the 6 months away, that they will go back and drastically redesign them? BMW has followed a 7 year cycle for many years now. Even the drawings of the upcoming 3 and 4 have plenty of hints of the current designs. The 7 facelift comes out this year or next, and the changes are pretty minor from the shots I have seen.

I think with all of that, and BMW's support of the design team, it would take a drastic change in sales (for the negative) for them to change things. I don't know about you, but I don't see alot of 5s or 7s sitting on the lots. Most all I have seen (especially 5s) are all spoken for.

As for "owned a 01 M5, I hated to make the switch, but had no choice, I hate the new designs and refuse to drive something I don't like.owned a 01 M5". Did you not like the 01 M5? You didn't HAVE to trade it just because you don't like the E60. There were 02 and 03 M5s as well.. they were all e39s. Why not get one of them, or keep your 01?

Just don't follow why you HAD to get the e55.