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interesting article on BMW design

11K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  Dylan Thomas 
#1 ·
http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0312ec_bmwdesign/

of interest is I find myself agreeing with both those who say: what is BMW doing?! and with those saying: the chages are good!

what does that mean? that I am comfortable with the old BMW but maybe I can appreciate what they are doing now and in the future. I think this is the big dilemma facing the fans. I also think the biggest dilemma facing BMW is not the styling, but the idrive system. it can be refined, but I think it needs revision at its base concept: 1 controller for all functions doesnt work.
 
#2 ·
Jerry,

Interesting article. If nothing else the new BMW design direction is controversial. Who is correct? I don't know. The market place will decide. Personally, as much as I like the E39 and E46 designs, I also like the new design direction (especailly the new 6 series---> ?E61 if I am not mistaken). It has been said many times that the only constant in life is change and this certainly applies to the automobile industry. "Stasis" or staying with the current designs is not an option given the competion from Audi and especially the "dark side". While some BMW loyalists may be turned off, perhaps the designs will bring in new converts to the fold. Time will tell.
 
#27 ·
i would think this is pretty obvious considering the cs concept, which surprisingly hasnt been mentioned in this thread, and that its acclaimed design has already been proposed to be integrated into its entire line up. the cs concept appears to be going back to the timeless look. it also appears to follow the footsteps of the aston martin very closely. a level that bmw is striving to reach imo. a lot of aston design cues are apparent in the x6.

the trademark grille of current models is also terrible, tiny (compared to previous iterations) and not "grand" or big especially on the e60. it shrunk and got weaker. the cs brings back the strong face of bmw.
 
#6 ·
Great comments everyone!

I think the code numbers for the 6er is E63 for the coupe and E64 for the cabrio.

I often wonder if BMW knew it would alienate its traditional customers as much as it seems. But the first thing to do is to find out if my statement preceeding is correct- has BMW actually alienated its traditional customers? If we ask here, I am sure the answer will be yes. Yet, 2 of my neighbors had E38 7s and now have E65 7s! They surely werent alienated (although both gripe about... yes, you guessed it- idrive).

I wonder if the next generation BMWs will return to a more traditional styling or continue the "avant-guarde" styling. I can see "evidence" of both. On the one hand, we know the 5 was delayed for restyling and that it was supposed to have the 7 series rear end. And the new styling has bothered many BMW traditionalists. On the other hand- Chris Bangle has said in interviews (including this one) that he hopes BMW continues to put out cutting edge designs.

my take on this is: design is subjective. Personally, I dont love it. I always felt BMWs were like a nice Armani suit- nicely put together, and understated. Thats exactly the sense I get when I sit in the M5 with the caramel interior. The new designs seem much more Versace- loud, wild, even a little nuts. Both are valid designs so long as they sell. While I dont love the Versace direction, BMW really had to make a change as they were being copied by nearly everyone.

And I should say, I actually like the new 5's exterior- I just dont like the interior very much.

I think most people will adjust to the new BMW designs. I do no think the same can be said of idrive. most people dont know how to seet their vcrs- nevermind learning how to use a computer that runs their car. If BMW put in more buttons, that would be perfect, but it would show how futile the idrive concept is- because the system that was supposed to do away with buttons was responsible for bringing them back. For proof that buttons are better, just look at the praise the Mini's interior gets- everyone says- its so easy to use. Take a look at the success of Mini. But thats just my take.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Rave E55 said:
Who wants to bet me money that within 5 years BMW will do a complete 180 and change the designs in a major way. I am sure this will turn out to be the biggest blunder in German automotive history (if not the entire Worlds).
I'll take that bet. Especially considering BMWs vocal support of Bangle and the current design team, the upcoming 6, the upcoming 3/4, etc.

Sure, in 5 years the 7 will be redesigned (roughly 5 years figuring 7 year cycle), and the 5 will have had an update. But "major" redesign, no way. Look at how well they are selling. There are no e60s available in my area, and there is a list for the ones coming in. In fact, there are boatloads of 3 series just sitting on the lot, cars that have been there for many months already.
 
#8 ·
BMW is conducting a very expensive experiment at the interface of business and design. It will be interesting to see the results five years out. I've done my share of complaining about the new fiver, and my first viewing in the flesh yesterday hasn't changed my opinion. However, many appear to like the design. Time, and money, will tell.
 
#9 ·
MEnthusiast said:

I often wonder if BMW knew it would alienate its traditional customers as much as it seems. But the first thing to do is to find out if my statement preceeding is correct- has BMW actually alienated its traditional customers? If we ask here, I am sure the answer will be yes. Yet, 2 of my neighbors had E38 7s and now have E65 7s! They surely werent alienated (although both gripe about... yes, you guessed it- idrive).

I wonder if the next generation BMWs will return to a more traditional styling or continue the "avant-guarde" styling. I can see "evidence" of both.

my take on this is: design is subjective.

I think most people will adjust to the new BMW designs.
Well said ME. BMW definately alienated a segment of their "traditional" customers, but then again, define traditional. By traditional, I assume you mean existing. I think part of their design mentality was to attract new customers and grow the business and not just support upgrades. I have always felt that BMW attracted a unique group of drivers. Was the E39 understated? Absolutely, and that made it sexy. But I think in some ways that hurt the car. Especially since the design was very.. traditional... and easily copied. And in some respects, very bland.

As for future designs, what I think we will see is a better blend of avant-guarde and "traditional" styling. I think the E60 is the first step. For me, the 6 swings wildly towards avant-guarde, while the 5 meets somewhat closer to the middle.

And definately more people will "adjust" to the new designs. I think all it will take is seeing them in traffic more. Right now, we have seen pics of the E60, and at dealerships, but not many on the road. For me, seeing the 7s on the road more did it. I am still "adjusting" to the Z4, but I am getting there, no question about it. I already like it alot more than the Z3.
 
#10 · (Edited)
vndkshn said:
I'll take that bet. Especially considering BMWs vocal support of Bangle and the current design team, the upcoming 6, the upcoming 3/4, etc.

Sure, in 5 years the 7 will be redesigned (roughly 5 years figuring 7 year cycle), and the 5 will have had an update. But "major" redesign, no way. Look at how well they are selling. There are no e60s available in my area, and there is a list for the ones coming in. In fact, there are boatloads of 3 series just sitting on the lot, cars that have been there for many months already.
Bet is on, how much and who will hold our money for 5 years?
Please don't misunderstand me, I used to be a huge BMW fan, owned a 01 M5, I hated to make the switch, but had no choice, I hate the new designs and refuse to drive something I don't like.
 
#11 ·
Rave E55 said:
who will hold our money for 5 years?
Good question!

I just don't see them ditching their current direction, definately not within 5 years. You actually think that with the 7 just two years old (or is it 3 now?), the 5 just a few months, the 6 months away, that they will go back and drastically redesign them? BMW has followed a 7 year cycle for many years now. Even the drawings of the upcoming 3 and 4 have plenty of hints of the current designs. The 7 facelift comes out this year or next, and the changes are pretty minor from the shots I have seen.

I think with all of that, and BMW's support of the design team, it would take a drastic change in sales (for the negative) for them to change things. I don't know about you, but I don't see alot of 5s or 7s sitting on the lots. Most all I have seen (especially 5s) are all spoken for.

As for "owned a 01 M5, I hated to make the switch, but had no choice, I hate the new designs and refuse to drive something I don't like.owned a 01 M5". Did you not like the 01 M5? You didn't HAVE to trade it just because you don't like the E60. There were 02 and 03 M5s as well.. they were all e39s. Why not get one of them, or keep your 01?

Just don't follow why you HAD to get the e55.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the great article. What I liked is that they didn't so much present opposing viewpoints as viewpoints on different aspects of the styling.
The most interesting part for me:
But seriously, for inspiration on how to "see" new BMWs look at shoes. The foot is relatively a constant set of dimensions and design parameters. Walking is an integral part of the function of mobility, yet some of the best dressed wear very progressive and sometimes painful shoes. In shoes we see subtle or radical design (or none). You can easily spot a design conscious person by looking at their shoes.
Form follows function, guys...
 
#13 ·
Talking of markets deciding:

I have spent six plus of the last eight weeks in London, mostly in Hampstead, St. John's Wood plus the West End and this is my very unscientific observation as it relates to the middle and high end luxury car markets there, in particular BMW v. MB.

Middle market: BMW 3 and 5 series quantity is very significant and seems to exceed MB C and E, but the MB's generally look newer. Lots and lots of very new looking silver C and E series. I have meanwhile seen a total of two of the new 5 on the road.

Upper market: totally dominated by MB S series and SL. I must have seen 100 + of the gorgeous looking new SL including AMGs and several hundred of the current model S series including AMG.
One certainly sees old series 7's around, though not that many, but I have seen a total of just two new 7's in the past 3-4 weeks.

The contrast is absolutely incredible. literally in the range of 100:1. If BMW is selling their new 7 in the UK, I wonder where? Hampstead and St john's Wood are very upscale, key markets for luxury cars.

The the new 7 frankly looks to my eye just out of scale for London: too buxom when people seem to want sleek and sexy.
 
#15 ·
I see relatively very few new 7 series in NYC or in New Jersey where I live and tons of new S series also, but London has us beat on SL's.

Mostly 500, 600 and 55. Amazing with gas prices what they are in the UK. 2-3 in a row at a traffic light sometimes. Also a decent number of Porche including turbo.

But just absolutely no new 7 or 5 for that matter I know it is early days for the 5, but even so. But these areas seem money-no-object car crazy. They seem definitely MB focused.
 
#16 ·
In NYC, Im seeing more and more 7s but not to the level of the S class. As to seeing M5s- most of the cars you see in NYC like a 7 or S are chuffer driven vehicles- so the M5 doesnt quite fit the bill.

The money no object crowd will always go with MB because "its the best". I know several people who fall into this mode of thinking and I think from a purchasing decision standpoint its unfortunate. Just look at Tiff Nedell's review of the CL65- he says its for the money no object crowd and despite being very fast was a dissapointment from a drivers car standpoint. Why have over 600bhp if it isnt going to be a drivers car?!
 
#17 ·
My dealer told me that a surprising few e39 owners/lessees are "upgrading" to the e60. This was apparently not the way it went for the e34 > e39 changeover some years ago. What he is seeing is lots of buyers crossing over from other brands such as MB, etc and picking up a new e60. Very interesting observation.

I told him that there will always be "early adaptors" - the people who must have the newest thing out there. Next year, we will see how well the e60 does.


MEnthusiast said:
......I often wonder if BMW knew it would alienate its traditional customers as much as it seems. But the first thing to do is to find out if my statement preceeding is correct- has BMW actually alienated its traditional customers? If we ask here, I am sure the answer will be yes....
 
#19 ·
03E39M5 said:
I told him that there will always be "early adaptors" - the people who must have the newest thing out there. Next year, we will see how well the e60 does.
I totally agree- I think we will know how well the E60 will do commercially once we get into year 2 and beyond of sales.
 
#20 ·
vndkshn said:

There were 02 and 03 M5s as well.. they were all e39s. Why not get one of them, or keep your 01?

Just don't follow why you HAD to get the e55.
I loved my 01 M5 drove it for almost three year's and it was time for a change, getting another E39 M5 was not an option (I wanted something different), other than the RS6, the E55 was the only car that met my requierments (Fast 4 door car)

:biggrin:
 
#23 ·
Interesting discussion,

I have actually noticed quite a few new 7 series around lately, and quite a few Z4s, in fact I've probably seen more current generation 7 series around in the last 6 months than E38s in the past 5 years! I actually saw 2 new 7's yesterday just in my local area which isn't even a 'rich' area. I haven't seen any new 5's yet apart from at the dealer, but then they have only just been released here.

As for the design, I loathed it when it first became apparent a year or two ago what the new 7 and Z4 were going to look like. I hated it with a passion, yet strangely it seems to have grwon on me, and now I'm in the slightly embarassing position of actually quite liking the Z4, maybe not so much the new 7 (mainly its rear end, the front isn't too bad). I have also noticed that BMW actually seems to be leading the car design trend, a lot of new cars are taking stying cues from the new BMW series range, I think the problem is that we are entering a neew era of design.

Look back the first cars, the the streamlined cars, what a jump! then into the tailfinned cars, then the 70's cars, then 80s cars, then 90s cars! i remember each time a new generetion of styling would come out everyone would complain how terrible it looked and how much better the old cars were, some of these cars are now considered classics and works of art! These things just take time. Of course a beautiful design is timeless

I dont think BMW's new cars are beautiful, I think personally the E34 5 series is the classic BMW image, looks great, hasn't dated much, restrained good looks, especially an M5, the E39 is also not far behind (my opinion). The new 5 is slowly growing on me, and I think the AC schnitzer one actually looks good. It looks a lot more agressive than the previous generations, for some reason it reminds me of a dragon :confused: .it also looks a bit slabsided and heavy with its high waistline, there is too much space between the top of the wheel arch and the top of the guard. But then again most new cars seem to have this problem. But I think BMW have lept ahead a few generations instead of the usual slow growth of its designs that has happened in the past. Audi have kept faithful to the slow growth and I think their design is great, conservative design doesn't age as quickly.


thats my 2c
 
#24 ·
re: brand loyality

I think its also valid to ask: how did BMW get such "scarey brand loyality"? was it car styling? car design? performance? luxury? something else?

I dont think theres anything wrong with stucking with something you know works for you.
 
#25 ·
Autospies Feedback on the E60

Here's some interesting reading from the Autospies site:

http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000203509.cfm?x=a2n7p4y,a1pl407v

Last week we asked our readers to give us their opinions on the new BMW 5-series. Here's the feedback we received:


Hi, I went to my local dealership and I was not very impressed with the

new 5 series. The front of the car looks kind of small, sort of a 3

series. I have seen a few cars on the street and it looks to me that

we have another 7 series disaster in the making. How can such a

phenomenal company like BMW could destroy all the excitement of their

designs.



Thanks, Felix Ferre

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Hi,

I ordered the new 5 series a few months ago and it is due to arrive at the dealership tomorrow (in Portland, OR). I haven’t actually paid for the car, just told the dealer the options and color I wanted. I got a phone call out of the blue last week offering me $2,000 off MSRP. I had planned on paying fully price but they initiated the discount. What does that tell you!?

Regards,

Jonathan McGowan

P.S. You have a great newsletter!

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While many buy a BMW for the great driving experience that many a car magazine reviewer can attest to, the vast majority of purchasers of BMW products do so for the image the vehicle portrays.



I am not to sure BMW’s recent offerings are what most buyers want to be seen in. They are simply not classically beautiful cars. I am sure there are those who will buy whatever comes attached to the BMW emblem, but I think the more image-conscious/casual buyers will look elsewhere for their ego fulfillment.



Jayson Buhle

Carlsbad, CA

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I live in jackson MS and I regularly go to the nearest BMW dealership, Halmark BMW. I have seen many new 530's around Jackson, and there is a board of 5 series sales in the showroom and there are many people on it. The dealership has at least 4 5 series right now. One of the Salesman said he sold 5 in one day, and had 7 test drives planned for the next day. They take the people in test drives to a huge parking lot, to show off ARS and Active Steering, It is amazing how many people look at you while you are in one. I think the response has been great everyone loves them. - Graeme Ross-15 years old



Brilliant to drive

Looks a little plastic inside (in beige)

wave dashboard was very unsettling as a passenger



__________________________________________________________________________



You wanted some feedback about the new 5 Series, well, here it is...



After reading all the BMW brochures and your site off course, I waited and waited until the BMW 530i arrived at the dealership.



The one I found was gray and was parked at the back of the dealership in Houston, TX



It was not what I expected,



My first impression was not good, to me, it looks like a "FAT and short 7-Series"

The front is too rounded for my taste, maybe with time it will grow on me.



Other cars like the new 2004 ACURA TL look more interesting, especially with all the audio/NAV electronics inside...



Why does BMW always tries to keep all the buttons in their consoles square? Don’t they know "square" is out, and rounded is more elegant?



And after I learned that the overhead projection system was not going to be available, I made up my mind...



I'm not buying a 5 Series anytime soon...



Anyway, I just wanted to share my point of view.



Thanks for your emails and webpage, the information is great!



Andres Martinez, CEO

DimaCorp, USA

Houston, TX



___________________________________________________________________________



Dear Auto Spies,



The 5 series is too expensive, especially the 545i.



Thanks,

Michael

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Dear 001,



Our local dealer has 15 new 5 series on his lot. I've been watching

closely, and they don't seem to be moving. This same dealer is advertising

a 36 month lease on the 530 for $499/mo, $0 down. A good friend who has

owned three five's since 1984, passed on the new five, and bought a 2004

Jaguar S Type R instead of a new 5. He cited the bizarre exterior styling

and cheap interior of the new 5 as his reasons for switching to Jaguar. If

BMW ruins the 3 series next year, as they have done with the 7 and 5, that

will be three strikes.



Keep up the good work, SC



Stanley

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I looked at and test drove each of the new 5 series, first I can't believe that a 525 is $49,000! Fit and finish and driving are great. Terrible arm rest design. Spacious rear seats. I drive feels cheap and plasticy compared to the cold metal feel of the 7 series I drive knob. Cup holders on the dash board? Those plastic rectangle cutouts on the rear center console if you don't order the rear seat heating option look horrible! No coinholder to store change for the parkway! Where is it? What happened to our full size matching rim spare tire? Now we get a space saver spare tire!! Why no LED tail lights? The E65 has them, the new 6 series has them, even the face-lifted E46 has them!



M

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I took delivery of a 2004 545i Sport 2 weeks ago. I have to say, I love the car.



It is a clear step up from the previous generation 5 series. The steering, handling, and power can only be appreciated by a test drive. Sound system is great. The fit and finish are clearly stepped up from previous models. The car has received a positive reception from pretty much everyone that has seen it.(more so than my 1997 540 sport when it was first rolled out) They have a home run here.



Love it, Love it, Love it.



Peter in New York City Metro

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Last spring my 740i sport lease expired. I would not buy the new 7- it was more limousine like, did not have the 'sport' available. Went sedanless for the summer. Fall, the sport comes, the seat does not articulate in the middle of the back, more distance between headrest and head making whiplash more likely, won't buy.



Salesman tries to switch me to 5 series since it is almost as big as the old 7, not really, but almost. Drove 530i sport, steering thingy has me hitting curbs on accelerating from driveways and right hand turns, but is awesome in parking( so long as I don't clip the parked car in front). Interior??? Don't like the door handles, so far forward and vertical, septuagenarians can't close the door themselves. Don't like the look of the wood (on the 7 also not so hot), i Drive is passable BUT there is no engine temperature readout at all!!(same in 7), The outside is ummmmm. Not better than the 7. The side curvatures are a guarantee in the city of the ugly dings of parking lot parked doors, the bumpers the guarantee of the ugly scratches from street parrallel parked license-plate-screw scratches.



OK, so I want the 545 sport, and that will be in October or November production. Will double pay for my seats to get that articulation (could not even do that on the 7- how peculiar). Not running for my checkbook. Anyway I wanted navigation--after not getting a straight story from BMW- it is not available until March production. First it is not retrofitable. Autospies beats the salesman (who is knowledgeable and excellent--best ever- Alan Sahigian at Perillo) and says the navigation is retrofitable. I'm not running.



And for this the price is quite high. Whoa. I like cars. The 740i was the best utility sedan I have had. And I have owned several S class Mercedes of different vintages, Volvo, Porsche Turbo, Lexus, Lincoln and have driven several Audis, new Jaguars and Volvos when I rent cars and they are available, and Cadillacs and Lincolns when they are not. I own now a Lexus LX470, a Lexus SC430 Nieman Marcus coupe (Both of these cars are both stunning and bland-- the coupe in this edition aesthetically well done, but the performance only fair--would not buy Lexus again until they correct the navigation system--my wife can't get the nav info in unless we are stopped--it is dangerous!), and my third car and favorite still: a Porsche 1991 928GT.



So I give up my BMW lease rebate - yes $1000 if I take delivery of a new one within 6 months. I pay not to buy this car. I will reconsider when there are some other competitors out there--Audi S8, Mercedes coupe sedan whatever it is called.



Marc

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Okay - I thought that maybe it would look better in person taking the suggestion of many people online who had actually seen the car. Also, the DVD BMW sent out to introduce the new 5 Series recently made it look half way decent. However, when I saw it in person just driving into the BMW lot, I was very disappointed. The car is just plain unappealing or just plain - period.

It doesn't look like anything special at all. Then when I looked at some of the quirky details it really turns me off. What is BMW thinking (or are they?). I was there to trade in my X5 lease and start shopping for a new one. Instead I went across the street and bought a Mercedes. They still know how to build classy great looking cars.



Mike Pellegrino

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I love the design----very sleek and eye-catching.



The interior doesn't begin to compare with other luxury cars in comfort

and bells and whistles.



The price, even for a 525, is now approaching $50,000 once you add the

packages you have to have that make it comparable with other cars in

its' class. I think that their pricing strategy is taking them out of

the upper middle class market and into the for "rich folks only" market!



Although I love my 2001 525 I'm not too sure I want to mortgage my

financial future on a 2004!

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Hello Autospies,



I want to share observations from my test drive of a black on grey 2004 530i

6-speed. When I first got to the dealer and got out of my 2003 330xi, I was

excited to drive the new BMW and was hoping to be excited enough to trade up

to a 5. Just as a point of reference, I have been racing in various serious

from F2 to late model NASCAR for several years, so I know driving. I drove

a sample without the sport package. Long story short, the car is smooth,

quiet and solid...but so is a Camry. The transmission, however, is BMW

slick as are the simple gauges. Elsewhere, the interior is way to busy and

complicated. I couldn't keep my eyes of that silly screen in the middle

dash, which seems to clutter the interior which used to be so clean and

simple. The middle screen also seems to block a clear view and makes you

feel like you're in a cocoon. I want to have a totally commanding view of

the road. NOt a screen (unless I'm in front of my 50 plasma on Sundays).

Clean and simple is what a real driver wants. The iDrive mouse is totally

distracting. I found myself playing with it every time I stopped and

wondering what the hell an i-Mac was doing in a car. It was like Communists

were in the car with me trying to do everything for me whether I liked it or

not. Just let me do it! The suspension was plush, perhaps a bit too plush.

It lopped over bumps and made the car feel like it weighed 6,000 lbs. I

would highly recommend the sport package if you're an enthusiast. The

stereo was strictly average, the door sills are too high and too stylized,

and the engine needs a power boost in such a heavy feeling car. It's not

the nimble 3-Series by any stretch. Perhaps aluminum panels should be

called for to reduce weight. When I returned to the dealer and jumped back

in my true ultimate driving machine, there was a sense of relief and

confusion. There is no way that I would trade such a pure, dynamic and

simple driving experience for such a fuddy duddy i-Mac on wheels. It'll be

good for people that just have to have the propeller, or those who care more

about downloading Dungeons and Dragons than finding the perfect apex on

every exit.

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Dear 001,



I purchased a new 530i with sport package (active steering, active

suspension) the week they were released a little over a month ago and

have been truly amazed by the vehicle's driving dynamics. I traded a

2001 740iL, and I can't even begin to describe how much better the new

5 is than the old 7 it replaced. As a serious car enthusiast, I have

several cars at any given time and often trade vehicles within a couple

years. Compared to the other cars I own (new SL500, G35 Coupe, and

M3), the 530i drives better than them all (yes, even the M3).



As for electronics or any other problems, I have had none whatsoever,

and I am thoroughly impressed by car's ability to generate looks and

comments from other drivers on the road. It seems like the design is

also a winner, as several people have commented to me about how

beautiful they think the car is. Furthermore, although I was initially

disappointed by the design of the car in pictures a few months ago,

every time I look at the car parked somewhere, I can't help but think

how beautifully executed the design really is.



In all, the new 5 is the best car I've ever owned and by far the best

driving. The steerings ability to change ratios make taking u-turns

an awe-inspiring experience and take the handling response of the car

to the next level. Moreover, the active suspension seems far better

suited to this car over the new 7 due to the 5's much lower weight and

smaller overall size. It literally feels as if this car is on rails

through a corner, unlike anything you've ever experienced before. It

continues to redefine capability and your confidence level as the speed

approaches almost triple digits through the apex of a curve and the car

continues to remain totally flat without a hint of tire squeal.

Overall, this car is a winner, and I highly recommend anyone in the

market for a car in this category to take a serious - and I mean

serious - look at the new 5. Hats off to BMW for this one.



Keep staying ahead of the game,



Jared

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Bought a new 2003 330i 2 weeks ago. when i asked about the 5, the salesman said they were selling really well (momentum in houston). He also said that I was the first person that he had talked to that didn't like it. so he's probably full of BS anyway....



-Nick

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Yecch! BMW stepped in it again.

DFF, Tampa FL

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I am in Mpls. and it is amazing to see all the 5 series on the lot. I think the car looks cheap compared to the old body style and the sticker shock is unbelievable! I thought the new 5 would be 10% cheaper by the look of it. Who wants to pay top dollar for that? I would rather drive a 3 series, it looks so much better.



Lexus GS and Mercedes E are going to benefit huge from this.



Jeff Hornig

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To replace my 2003 530iA with Nav, sunscreens, PDC, Xenons, rear fold-down seats('02 MSRP $49,650) would cost me close to $60K by adding the sport pkg.
I'm now looking at a Touareg V8, fully-loaded at around $ 46K(negotiated). Tremendous value: versatile, dynamic suspension, great V8, high-quality finish and materials.

Ed DeJesus

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As a long time BMW owner, having owned and enjoyed the following:.(73 2002 Tii,77 320i,85 535i,89 M3,97 M3,2000 Mcoupe),I was

waiting for the new 5 and hoping that that BMW would return to elegant styling instead

of the 7 series overgrown Hyundai mess.

Believe me, I try to like the new 5,but instead of walking into a dealer and feeling like

I had to have right now like i usually do, I felt the opposite.

Summary:

Exterior Styling-Do not like it at all-come on BMW who is going to like those headlights?

Interior Styling- Ok for a Buick-What happened to driver oriented cockpits?

Ride and handling- Excellent-fire the stylists and let the engineers in charge of the entire

car.

Result-Bought a MB E500-not crazy about 3/4 side rear view but at least it looks like a

Mercedes and the interior styling is head and shoulders above the 5.BMW has lost one

of its most loyal customers



--- Joseph

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The sides of the car are so ugly and destroy the flow from

the front and back that I decided not to buy one, but to

find something else.



RC, Los Angeles

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I’m in southern California and went shopping for a 5 at several local

dealerships a few weeks ago. None were willing to budge on msrp, and some

were even charging a markup. Crevier wanted $10k extra for a 545i !



i also went to the Anaheim auto convention and there were large crowds

around the 5. I had to wait in line just to have a seat. Everyone seemed

to like it and I heard nothing but positive comments.



Regards,



DR.

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I have a 530i Sport (old shape) and am looking to change it. Anyway, I tried the new 530i and wasn’t impressed. It looks okay from certain angles, but then you look at it from the front and something just doesn’t seem right. The front end just seems to fall away unlike with the aggressive front end of the older version. The interior isn’t a patch on the former model, the dash just seems to disappear into the distance, it’s so long and straight. The older dash has two convex areas where passenger/driver sit, making you feel more cocooned. I-Drive is too fiddly and dangerous – I was taking my eyes off the road for far too long when using it. And what the hell have they done with the indicator lever? The new system is confusing – why the hell change something that was perfectly okay the way it was? If it isn’t broken, don’t bloody fix it! Nope not for me, so I placed an order for an M3 coupe instead. I loved my old 530i Sport, but the new one is just too gimmicky and well, boring.



James

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Despite the fact that I waited over six months to finally receive my car – It was frustrating that all I could see was a small paint swatch of the color, dark grey until I actually picked the car up.



Overall the car is truly amazing, definitely a driver’s car ! it’s everything that I expected after reading the German test drive reports. Based on what I learned from Auto Spies, I actually knew more information about options and available features than my dealer did !

The overall feel of the car is entirely different than the old 5 or my 3 series which I just surrendered.

One thing, if you don’t buckle you seat belt, there’s an annoying chime which keeps ringing non-stop until you buckle up or turn up the radio.



I think the cars are delivered with settings in German and the trip computer was in KM – it took me three cold A.M. drives to finally figure out how to convert the temperature to Farenheit !



On my way to work the first week with only 120 miles ( after I finally figured to change the indicator from Km ), my I-Drive display went out ! When I went outside later on that day the screen came back on as if nothing happened, but I think its worth looking into if I can wait until my first service.



After 6 months of anticipation, I still think it’s the better choice over an A6 or the E-Class !



Best Regards,



Chris Pearce

Oceanside, New York

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I've been waiting for almost 2 years and am very disappointed. Rear looks like a Honda. Side looks like ? and the interior lacks everything.



Sadly looking for alternatives that will be available by March. Used 530?



Steven

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Hello,

I waited for the new 5 series, I have test driven them many times but I am not thrilled about it. First of all the overall size is too big, I don't like the I knob or the screen for the display of everything that the I operates. I was looking for something a little smaller. I have had my 95-525I for 9 years and I was really looking to change in 2004. Now I am contemplating a 3 series to get a smaller car.

By the way, when are the all new 3's coming out? The sound system and many of the other features I did like but not the size.



Sincerely,

Brenda Owens

California

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I am a current owner of a 2000 540i and traditionally trade vehicles at least every 2 to 4 years. After seeing the 5 series in person, IMHO it is much worse in person than in the photos, much unlike the 7 series which I found was better in person. The interior is significantly cheapened and does not hold up to the old 5 series standard, much less the competition form Audi or Mercedes. I did not even consider an offer from the salesman, to test drive the new 545i sitting on the lot!



This is the worst Bangle creation yet and can only wait to see if the new 6 series which looks promising in photos, stands up in person.



After seeing the new Mercedes CLS concept, I have to start seriously considering jumping ship to the other side!



Proud past owner of 4 different BMWs

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Just one opinion but...

I went to my BMW dealer for service on my "M" truck and while waiting had time for a good look at the new 5 and 7.

I think the 5 looks good and strong but the slab side will relegate the design to the non classic category. Fashionable not timeless.

Now the 7 is a different story. When I first saw this new beast I was torn between thinking it was either laughable or offensive. But I stood on my dealers lot 2 days ago and looked at a line of 6 or 8 of the new 7's with an old model in the line up. I can't understand my change of mind but the design has grown on me. The old 7 looks dated beside it. I now find this Bangle design looks powerful, muscular and important. Particularly in dark colors.

I guess just what BMW hopes we will think.

Bill Goddard

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My .02 cents....



Now that I have seen it in the metal it is not as bad as I had feared from pictures, especially in dark colors. The nose needs the lower airscoop reworked... that frowning thing just does not do it. The trunk line is bad as well... not as bad as the 7 but not too good either. Not having a styling element to allow door guards will make the body shops happy but not the owners. Lets see, oh yea, I don't know the numbers but the front overhang seems longer to me, which looses some of the tight bodywork look of previous BMWs. It just seems like an unresolved design I guess, it just does not come together well... but it is not as bad in person as in pictures.



The interior is OK but I don't like the double binnacle layout. It for sure seems less driver focused. I think the X3 and Z4 interiors are much more successful. The popup screen is a much more elegant solution. Idrive... get rid of it IHMO... figure out another solution because this is not it.



Not sure if I really want one the way I have previous BMWs. They were always restrained, handsome and tasteful. The new 5 is none of these... seems to be trying to hard to be a styling statement and electronics technology statement... neither of which are focused on the core of BMW which is to produce the "Ultimate Driving Machine."



Current vehicles

00 BMW M5

89 BMW 325ix

00 Dodge Durango

92 Mazda Miata



Previous BMWs

72 1802

73 3.0 CSL

95 M3



Rick

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I picked up my '04 545i last week. I have to say that this car is so much better than my E39 540 six speed. My car is equipped with the Sport Package, which makes the car truly incredible in the twisties. At first, Active Steering felt awkward and lurchy in the turns. After getting used to it (took about a day) the car feels very agile and more responsive to steering input. At first, I felt the interior was a bit to 26th Century, but after living with it, every other car seems like it was built for only function. I really feel like the car is centered around me; however, the function and quality of the interior exceeds even the extremely high BMW standards. The car is built like a rock!!! I thought my E39 was awesome.....Once you drive a 545i with SMG and the Sport Package, you will have a whole new pespective on sports sedans. My car out does any other sports sedans- Lexus GS430, MB E-Class, Jaguar S-Type, Audi A6, ect. I've driven them all, and remain, a BMW lover. I am going to brush up on some criticizm that the new BMW's have been achieving- The I-Drive is very simple to use (now its made for a moron), and the styling. The styling (I believe) is very striking and fresh. BMW needed to jump away from the elderly, classic designs sometimes. BMW is doing the right thing by changing, but Chris Bangle took a little to early of a leap into these designs. My BMW service is great and I feel like they stand behind their product. My 5 is going to be in the family for a while, for it's the best car I've ever driven.



Edward

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How could they, it looks even less interesting in person. I sold a 540 3 years ago because at 6ft + I had to do a twist to get into the drivers seat, the new one is the same the seat is too far back of the B pillar. The gages are from the 70's very plan and ugly. the look on the road especially with break dust on the wheels is as non descript as a Chrysler Van, may be a good stealth speeder, huh. I like the 7 series look not I drive, and other then the baby buggy top on the Z4, I don't mind what Chris did to it, but the 5 beyond comprehension and consideration. Is it me I currently drive a Porsche, Lexis and Navigator, all 3 are on lease end next March, the 5 was on the list if they fixed the egress with the new added length. Looks like they did not fix that and lost the look of the 97 to 03, to me it was one of the best looking cars on the road.



John

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Since it was time for me to change my '99 528i, my interest in the new 5 was high. After all the spy photos and product launch brochures, wherein I was really confused about the look of the 5-series, I finally saw it at the showroom at which point the confusion was over. The car was ugly. It looks like a honda up front and a Toyota Camry at the back. Awful.



Sitting in the car was VERY pleasant. A test drive revealed some surprising details.

1) Idrive sucks. It is pointless and if you are not used to using it even dangerous whilst driving. Whilst a button might take you 1 press to change a radio station, this thing does it in several.

2) The comfort seats are oh-so- comfortable.

3) Active steering on the highway was not nice. It felt lifeless.

4) The car feels tighter than the outgoing model, handles better, but it is a disappointment. It was not WOW enough.



My net conclusion was that my old car was good enough compared to the new 5. It did not inspire me to buy one. I also decided that I could not live with the shape. I even began to like the 7 series over the 5. (Maybe that was BMW's point). In the end I bought an M3. I like the old style driver orientated dashboard. I like the simplicity of lots and lots of buttons.



Thanks and Regards,



Sunil

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I waited a year for the new 5 to come out in order to trade in my 1999 528i.

I am extremely disappointed in the overall appearance; especially the cat eye headlights. I am not sure who BMW is aiming their market at, but they missed me as a buyer. I am looking elsewhere.



Ed

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A few weeks ago my wife & I went to check out the new E60 at my local BMW
dealer. While waiting for the doors to open (We were early birds by a bit),
we checked-out an E39 530, configured almost exactly as I wanted. It had a
sticker of $46k.

A salesman approached us, & first I drove the E-39; GREAT! Even without the
sport package. The thing that really impressed me was the absolutely
GORGEOUS beige leather interior with the light colored wood trim. My wife
said "Why don't you get this one?" "Sure" I said; "If they'll take $40k &
give me $10k on my trade, I'll think about it." Knowing all along that
they'd never do that deal.

THEN we drove the E60. With the sport package, the performance was
discernibly better. The ARS held the car nearly flat even at well over
60mph on a tight onramp. I was REALLY impressed.

I could tolerate the exterior appearance, even LIKED it! However the
interior was another story. The way the dash disappears behind the door
handles instead of flowing INTO them turned me off. The E-39 interior flows smoothly

And contiguously with gorgeous wood accents following the lines.

In the E60, the wood trim was anthracite which looked like burnt wood.

Even the regular wood trim looked MUCH too dark.

The general shape of the dash seemed unnatural & didn't seem to be oriented
towards the driver. The double hump shape that attempted to incorporate the

i-drive screen seemed to be an afterthought of design, rather than an integral

part of the overall shape of the dash. A MAJOR looser for me.

The actual I-Drive wasn't so bad; quite intuitive, I thought. But using while
driving... forget about it. Perhaps with the forthcoming Navigation system

& voice command, things will be less distracting.

Over all, the interior turned me off enough to where I felt that if I REALLY
wanted an E60, I'd wait another year or so to get possible upgrades on the
interior. Besides, the way I configured an E60 would make for about a $53k
car with little or no dealing...at the present.

The deal I thought I'd never get on the 2003 E39? They gave it to me! It
was an offer I couldn't refuse. Although not as technically advance as the
E60, I find myself appreciating the E39 more every day, ...at least $13,000
more, for certain. And OOOOOHHHHH is that interior gorgeous.



Jimmy

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I have a 5 series now and went to look at the new cars with the intent on purchasing one. The 5 series is just too expensive being in the low 50's and up. I like the ride of the new Acura TL and really like the interior better. As a result, I will purchase the new TL.



Thanks for listening,



Bruce Updyke

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IT'S A PONTIAC GRAND AM IN FRONT,

AND KIA RIO FROM BEHIND.

ITS DASH IS HAPHAZARDLY ARRANGED.

CAN ITS DRIVE MAKE-UP FOR EVERYTHING ELSE?



Tony

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It is scary to think about BMW's bragging rights to technology, yet they could not get the bugs out soon enough to offer the navigation sytem in the 5 series roll out.
I think the jury is still out. Something is wrong.



i looked over the 5 series vs. the lexus ls 430 the 5 series was actually a few dollars more than the ls by the time i had all the options i wanted. will stick with lexus.



thanks,

rhp

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I test drove the new BMW "5" series last week but ultimately bought a new

2004 Mercedes-Benz E320 on Tuesday. I really wanted to like the new 5 too!



Its not that I did not like the new 5 series. I was pleasantly pleased with

the exterior styling (the 7 is atrocious!). I test drove a new 530 (without

the new variable steering option - forgot what it is called) and the drive

was typical BMW - a fantastic driving car! Performance, handling, price,

fit, finish, were all in line with my expectations - top notch! So whats the

problem?



The interior was the thing that lost the sale. I hated the I drive system.

I hated the complexity (yeah, I know it was dumbed down from the 7 series).

I hated the fact that so many common tasks were relegated to the I-drive

instead of a logical array of swithes and knobs on the dash. In fact the

dash/cockpit appeared kind of spartan maybe even cheap from the lack of

readily accessible controls. The big overgrown silver bottle cap for the

Idrive system sticks out like a sore thumb. Idrive seems so inefficient and

inelegant - a relic from the tech boom of the late 90's! I refuse to buy a

car that would aggravate me on my daily drive - that is what my wife is for.



The salesman's well rehearsed pitch emphasized the fact that I had managed

to: start the car, drive it, park it without touching Idrive. I still

didn't "get it". Maybe being a 44 year old engineer qualifies me for the old

dog - new trick axiom. Maybe I would grow to accept it had a bought the car,

it just seemed ridiculous to me.



The car does appear to be selling well. I only saw a few 530s on the dealer

lot and was told the price would be MSRP (a face saving $100 discount was

available for those who refused to pay MSRP). BIG discounts are available

for 2003 7 series, and he hinted that discounts were available of the 2004 7

series also.



Ultimately, I voted with my dollars. A new Pewter / Charcoal leather

Mercedes E320 is sitting in my garage. Maybe the next generation 5 Series

will win me over.



Peter

Houston, TX



P.S. - I just re-read my email and was surprised how mad I sounded describing

the Idrive system. I knew I did not like it, but did not realize it affected

me like that! Like I said in the opening paragraph - I really wanted to like

the car! Maybe I feel that BMW let me down with this bone headed design.

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Went to test-drive the new 5 series - I initially had a hard time with the

exterior styling, but thought to myself that the important thing was how it felt

to the driver... so I stepped inside... Can you say minivan meets american

design!! It felt very cheap, much more so than the last 5 (I own a 2000 528is).

Much of the plastic and the over done curves and angles cheapened the car... too

bad for the aesthetic side. The drive was pleasant, although it seems that BMW

is moving towards pleasing the money, not the driver - my friend's e-class

shifts much smoothly than this new five. I give it 3/5.

PS - I also test-drove the 745 - what a fun car!



Alex

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I have had a string of BMW's over the years, most recently a 2001 540i. I looked at the 2004 and cannot stomach the styling. If anything it looks worse in reality than in photos. I am buying a 645 which will arrive in April and is the least offensive looking of the current designs. I think that the new 5 will be a less successful marketplace performer than its predecessor

Ronan McGrath

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