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Old 12th September 2003, 13:42   #51
vndkshn
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Absent, that's fine that it fills your needs, it just doesn't fill mine, because of the manual. Again, at least in AMG form. Add in the more disconnected and isolated feel from the car as a whole.

Again, they are great LUXURY cars that are very fast. But not great sport sedans.

In fact, I have a hard time comparing the Ms and the AMGs. I think they are in different classes. Not putting either down, but both cars have different objectives.
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Old 12th September 2003, 18:10   #52
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ahem. again- what twisties?

my "hunting"/"playing" area seems to be void of twisties.

besides, even if there are some wiggling patches of road, are you really going to race anybody there? in your right mindset? in america? where older (and not so old) people drive in the middle of the road?

here is another view on it:

the m5 is an everyday car- not a weekend warrior. and my weekdays are spent 100% on the highways if you dont count the 2 miles of road to my house (that one too is fairly straight albeit a little hilly)

for the weekends, as i said before, you can show up in an m5 at your scca event, but there are much better choices for far less money.

so again, why do i need my everyday car to excel in the twisties? because i can take a sweeping turn on the mass pike at 140? i think i can do the same with same success in the merc

bmw has to understand that 75% of all m5 fans are such because of the manual tranny and stiffer suspension. if amg comes with good manual (there is plenty aftermarket for suspension to get it to your liking), bmw will be losing market share in the uber-sedans fast.

amg cars are void of sportiness? throw in a 6 speed, a stiffer suspension and 700 pounds of tq and i am sure that very few of us will have the incline to think that this car is heavy

just picture the current m5 with automatic. would you consider one? i wouldnt.

just imo ofcourse

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Old 12th September 2003, 20:37   #53
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ah... heated debate.

i'm not going to argue numbers or times, cause in my opinion, i couldn't give a **** whether or not an AMG could tear me up on a straight, or a course.
Yes, I have enormous respect for AMG owners, but it's all about preference. I bought my car for me, not anyone else, and I know many other members of the board would agree that driving a BMW feels like no other car/sedan out there. I drive an M5, not because i know i could win or lose a race, but because i'm loving it, no matter what speed i'm at.

AMG's are amazing cars, and as long as you love driving it, drive on.

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Old 12th September 2003, 20:59   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by kees
I knew that would get a reaction...

But to be honest, do you consider the Mercedesses sportsedans? They are good at going fast in a straight line - but are not good in the twisties...which to me is one of the things key to a sportsedan.
Kees, superchargers have nothing to do with handling in the twisties. My preferred method of forced induction is turbocharging, but I am not biased. I love power any way I can get it.

Supercharged, twincharged, N20, turbocharged.. etc.
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Old 12th September 2003, 21:21   #55
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AJ, you obviously use your car different than I use mine.

My point, BMWs to me feel like sports cars that have been made somewhat luxurious. MBs feel to me like luxury cars that have been made sporty. There is a difference. From their original inception, both cars had different design intentions. And you can feel that difference when you drive.

Every BMW I have ever driven have always made me feel like I was part of the vehicle. It did not matter what engine. Even the automatics in my brother and sister in laws X5 and 540i, I still felt connected to the car.

Every MB I have driven, I have not had that feeling. They have all been very nice cars, and in the AMG world, very very very fast, but even under full throttle, they just didn't talk to me. I felt isolated from the experience.

As for induction style, I like all types, depending on the type of vehicle I am in, and the style of driving. As a general rule, I prefer the instant response of the NA motors, but superchargers have come a long way in this area. Turbos are great for ultimate power, but you have to drive around the lag. Nitrous is all kinds of fun, and almost instant, but it is very rough on the engine and finding a bottle refill station can be difficult.

It surely is not all about HP, or torque. Sure, I put the hammer down and grin from ear to ear, but given the time and the choice between the highway and the backroads.. I will ALWAYS take the backroad.

I won't say that the MBs aren't nice, and aren't fast. They just don't talk to me the same. Oh, I also find the front end of them pretty ugly to0. I actually like the front of the 7s much better. And I really like the front of the e60.

But... different strokes.

Last edited by vndkshn; 12th September 2003 at 21:25.
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Old 13th September 2003, 03:25   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Country
I bought my car for me, not anyone else,
Whoa, whoa, whoa! You're making too much sense for this board, mister! You're supposed to be concerned about what random people on the street think of your "tight ride" and what people on the internet have to say about it!
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Old 13th September 2003, 16:20   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJ
bmw has to understand that 75% of all m5 fans are such because of the manual tranny and stiffer suspension.
Sadly I think that this is wrong. Its been my experience that most of BMW M car owners bought them simpley because they were the "best" 3 or 5 series.

Quote:
Originally posted by AJ
amg cars are void of sportiness? throw in a 6 speed, a stiffer suspension and 700 pounds of tq and i am sure that very few of us will have the incline to think that this car is heavy
You cannot make a 4400 lbs car sporty no matter how hard you try. I know people who have tried.

Quote:
Originally posted by absent
I really don't care what it looks like,all engines are covered completely nowadays anyway.
Sad but true. Whats under that cover is likely the most advanced road going engine to date but from the picture there is no way to tell. Best we can do is speculate if the few pixels on the intakes are throttles or MAFs.
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Old 14th September 2003, 17:41   #58
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for all you horsepower lovers, here's an article for you:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?previe...y.php?id=39744
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Old 14th September 2003, 23:18   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by tfung
for all you horsepower lovers, here's an article for you:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?previe...y.php?id=39744
Wow... that sounds like a really... yawn... exciting.... zzzz.... vehicle to drive... wake me when it is over.

Interesting that they note that the brakes are bad, handling bad, sloppy suspension, lots of wasted power, total reliance on the computer to control things...

And I wonder how bad the turbo lag is, especially considering the automatic.
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Old 25th September 2003, 22:09   #60
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It isn't how it looks but how it will sound. I would guess it will be the best sounding //M engine since the S38.

Mercedes v. BMW? I know this. In 4 years of tracking my E34 I have seen one Mercedes at the track--just one (a 190E if I recall). Of course, I can,t count how many //M's I have seen including several E39's at the last event I was at.

Mercedes more often than not has had a car quicker than the BMW competitor (E34 M5 v. 500E for example). However, they continue to attract far different drivers.
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