I was contemplating about this proposed 10-cylinder engine that will be powering the next M5. I was in the shower daydreaming of our Beasts (as usual :p ) and got to thinking...
This will be BMW's first ever 10-cylinder engine for a production car. What other cars on the market come with V10s? First and foremost, the Dodge Viper. About 8 liters and 10 cylinders. What else? Some big Ford trucks come with 10s. Unless I'm missing something, the Viper is really the only performance automobile with something other than a 6, 8 or 12 cylinder motor (or some variation thereof, i.e. a blower).
Obviously, this upcoming 10-cylinder engine will have much in common, or at least will be somewhat technologically related to the 10-cylinder engines that power the BMW/Williams F1 cars.
F1 10-cylinders are extremely high revving and are more akin to four-banger Hondas in terms of the way they put out their power than the torquey V8 in the E39 M5.
So how will the power be delivered in the new car?
Will the car be more of a high-revving, 500-HP car with a 7000+ RPM redline?
Will the car be strongly bias on the torque side ala Dodge Viper?
Or will the car be more a less similar to the current car's characteristics in that it makes good torque in the low to mid RPM range but horsepower kicks in towards the middle-to-top range?
With Mercedes' cars' motors making 500+ lb-ft of torque, could we be looking at similar brute power in the upcoming engine? Or will it be more of a screamer?
It will be interesting to see what happens, don't you all think? I'm betting for a powerplant pretty similar to the current one in that it will be balanced in terms of HP/TQ. The current V8 is a comparatively rev-happy one in that it revs to 7000 RPMs (or more, you Powerchippers!) whereas traditional American V8s cut at around 6000.
I'm guessing however that there will be a slight torque bias at least in comparison to the M3. The M3 is always the revvier, peppier one of the two cars. It's up to the M5 to deliver the more relaxed power. But it looks like the next generation M3 will carry a V8, so then again... Who knows!
Just some food for thought!
-Matthew
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'02 M5 -- Carbon Black/Imola
____Supersprint X-Pipe & mufflers
____Dinan short-shift kit
'03 MINI Cooper -- Pure Silver/Black
my guess is you have it right. I think some insight can be achieved by knowing what BMW considers to be the traits of a M car:
* rear wheel drive
* fast revving, naturally aspirated engine
* manual tranny (they consider SMG to be a manual- it is!)
* chassis capabilities beyond the engine
my guess is they wont equal MBs torque numbers, but the cars will weigh considerably less, so power to weight will be important. also there is a benefit- imho- to the instant on feeling of a naturally aspirated engine. I think all things considered, most of us wont have any issues with the engine or the handling of the vehicles. the styling seems to be the biggest question mark.
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All the best,
Jerry 00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
I would bet on a torquey engine. There is more room in the current S54 V8 block for more displacement and a higher compression. If all they wanted was more hp, they could have increased the bore and stroke on the V8. I suspect close to 500 ft-lbs of twist. Moreover, the motor will probably feature direct-injection fuel supply and at least 4 valves/cylinder.
Originally posted by MEnthusiast my guess is they wont equal MBs torque numbers, but the cars will weigh considerably less, so power to weight will be important.
Actually the E60 chassis is slightly heavier than the E39 chassis. About equal to the Mercedes E-class chassis.
The way to horsepower in a light package is with moderate displacement, higher operating rev range and higher max revs. The moderate displacement keeps the package smaller(closer bore centers), and perhaps lighter. Higher revs give greater hp numbers per displacement(all else being equal).
Let's just imagine a 10 cylinder, 5.0L engine made by BMW that had the following spec: 87mm bore 84mm stroke, with high strength rods, 4V/cylinder etc. Red line of 9000 and peak power @8500. Torque would be about 380 ft#@ 4700, and HP would be 600!
Yeh, a little low on torque, but the above assumes an engine made exactly like an S2000 Honda except in V10 instead if inline 4. With BMW's VANOS I'd expect a little more torque at lower RPMs.
Trust me...it would go very nicely. No dramatic breakthrough technology either. Sure, maybe a little clutch slippage to get moving quickly, but with a nice SMG III that wouldn't matter. Think about 600HP and less than 4000#. SERIOUS acceleration. And in that config, fuel mileage would be reasonable, so you would be able to go 300 miles on a tank the same size as we have now. Then there's the
SOUND!, can't imagine. Oh well, guess I'll just have to wait 'til they show us their hand. Can only hope.:p
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JesseM
[b]2006 M5 Sapphire Black,Indi red, HUD, rear bags, fold seats, comfort access, BBS RG-Rs,265/35 -285/35, Dinan front & rear roll control 56K Miles
2003 Silver 325XiT
2003 Black Infiniti G35 Coupe
2005 BMW K12S(<8min N'ring)
Vintage Triumph m/c's(110 rwhp/liter -w/pushrods)
Originally posted by Jessem Yeh, a little low on torque, but the above assumes an engine made exactly like an S2000 Honda except in V10 instead if inline 4. With BMW's VANOS I'd expect a little more torque at lower RPMs.
No kidding. And, perhaps I don't speak only for myself seeing as though lots of us here are torque junkies, but... I don't particularly care for the S2000's power delivery. (Neither do most car magazines when driving on regular streets either, but let's not start that... ) Unless you're over 6000 RPM you may as well be driving a great handling Civic. I'd be hoping for some more torque on the new engine!!
380 lb-ft of torque is hardly more than the stock S62 makes. I'm sure that wouldn't do in the new engine as many people will look specifically at the engine's output numbers and if they don't see a strong increase... I woul dhope more like 400 lb-ft at least. But then again, I'm not even in the market for an E60. I just got my E39 two months ago!
-Matthew
__________________
'02 M5 -- Carbon Black/Imola
____Supersprint X-Pipe & mufflers
____Dinan short-shift kit
'03 MINI Cooper -- Pure Silver/Black
Originally posted by keesdh Actually the E60 chassis is slightly heavier than the E39 chassis. About equal to the Mercedes E-class chassis.
Interesting- in comparing the E39 540 to the new E500 there is exactly 10 lbs difference in weight, the E39 being lighter. BMW said the E60 would weigh less than the E39. Perhaps its just the M version that will weigh less. I tried checking the curb weight of the new E55 AMG and its to be determined- although all other specs are known. Interesting...........
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All the best,
Jerry 00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
different opinion
) Unless you're over 6000 RPM you may as well be driving a great handling Civic. I'd be hoping for some more torque on the new engine!! 
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