Originally posted by MT JTN Unless I'm missing something, the Viper is really the only performance automobile with something other than a 6, 8 or 12 cylinder motor (or some variation thereof, i.e. a blower).
The Carrera GT has a 5.7l V10 making 612hp@8000 / 435lbft@5750.
So, is this new V10 Powerplant design going to be completely new? I mean, are they going to base it on anything they have already done? Why can't they just add two cans to the S62 engine and have a 5.8L V10??? The S62 is a known entity, and it doesn't seem like adding two cylinders would be an engineering leap.
I can't imagine looking under the hood of my M5 and seeing an engine that's larger than what's in there right now...
Reflex, you got the one I was missing. The new Carrera GT... Yep... V10. However, of course, that car will sticker at $400,000+ and we all know it'll sell for more than that so it really does put it in a class of its own... certainly no competition from the E60 and a Viper. But yes, you got it.
MEnthusiast, you're exactly right about the BMW/Williams V10. In BMW's F1 program they use a V10. That's why one of my predictions was that the engine will be heavily based on that engine... meaning, extremely high horsepower at the high end of the tach which could run at 8,000 or more. (The F1 car's redline is like, 15,000 RPM or something ridiculous). I just can't see a 4/5 person family sedan, even if it IS the E60 M5 with a V10 with a redline of like, 9000 RPM or anything. Even though the engines will be related, I'm sure there won't be a redline like that. How could there be?
But certainly, if the E60 IS indeed to ship with a V10, BMW/Williams F1 technolgogy and know-how will certainly provide a link between Formula One racing and the new engine.
-Matthew
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'02 M5 -- Carbon Black/Imola
____Supersprint X-Pipe & mufflers
____Dinan short-shift kit
'03 MINI Cooper -- Pure Silver/Black
Why does everone seem to be afraid of RPM in a "family sedan". First, the buyers of M5 expect some groundbreaking technology. 2nd, if the engine was quiet(why wouldn't it be? just enough sound to be exquisite!) and the gearing was such that you hit redline near the current shift points on the E39 M5, why would it matter whether the engine was turning 7K or 9K? And yes, maybe the torque would only be a little more than we have now, it would still move out quite smartly until it hit 6K, then what a rush to 9K. And with a 7speed...200+
The same rpm discussion occured when they we were moving from flatheads to OHVs. And we know how that turned out.
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JesseM
[b]2006 M5 Sapphire Black,Indi red, HUD, rear bags, fold seats, comfort access, BBS RG-Rs,265/35 -285/35, Dinan front & rear roll control 56K Miles
2003 Silver 325XiT
2003 Black Infiniti G35 Coupe
2005 BMW K12S(<8min N'ring)
Vintage Triumph m/c's(110 rwhp/liter -w/pushrods)
I figured that if you simply scaled theE46 M3 from six cyliners to ten, and multiply the HP and displacement, you get a 5.3l engine with 555 HP. If the torque scales as well, you'd have 448 ft-lbs.
Who knows if the math really works that way, but it's a start...
Scaling generally works that way...more cylinders higher percentage of friction losses...banks of 5 cylinders may not have the same opportunities( more or less) for good exhaust scavenging etc etc.
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JesseM
[b]2006 M5 Sapphire Black,Indi red, HUD, rear bags, fold seats, comfort access, BBS RG-Rs,265/35 -285/35, Dinan front & rear roll control 56K Miles
2003 Silver 325XiT
2003 Black Infiniti G35 Coupe
2005 BMW K12S(<8min N'ring)
Vintage Triumph m/c's(110 rwhp/liter -w/pushrods)
in an effort to catch up with the merc, the e60 v10 will be strained in civility. it will make 500hp at 7500 rpms and and 435 tq at 4000 rpms.
the power delivery will be smooth, but off the line it will feel weaker than the e39 m5.
i see turbos in the bmw's future.. you cant compete torque-wise with the blown mercs.. and as heavy as those cars are torque is what counts around town.
Like Reflex55 said "The Carrera GT has a 5.7l V10 making 612hp@8000 / 435lbft@5750."
So , we dont expect that mutch power but BMW has to be close to the hp/L that the Porsche is making!
So a 5.5L engine should make 590BHP acording to the Porsche engine. But form what I already saw from that Porsche is that it has huge air intakes and it will cost a lot more than the M5!
About the F1 related things , I dont believe they can learn a lot from that ! I think its more of a marketing thing to sell.
The F1 engines are high reving V-10s with "only" 3L of displacement! Those engines "cut" at 19.050RPM
So they get the mas torque at around 13k !
The F1 engines are made of very expensive materials and cost (only the engine) like 5 or 6 M5s
My expectation are :
5.5L V-10 550BHP@7500RPM / 600NM@ 5300RPM
This is what I belive the perfect M5 engine !
Anything above will surprise me
Under that , I believe it will make me
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Artur Costa
"as soon as the road turns - look in the rear view mirror, and there you will se the AMG´s"
1992 E34 M5
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