CAR WILL NOT START -- 6 months.. GOOD BATTERY AND STARTER

Killer-Bimmer · Jun 30, 2013

I have to assume you had codes read first before doing all this? Though you don't want to take to a dealer do you have a good independent BMW shop in the area? Though you may not like dealers they all aren't to bad and in my case for the M cars mine only uses their top guys for anything other than routine maintenance.

You need to get codes and someone who knows these cars more than you or others that have tried to help.

Good luck!

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jcolley · Jun 30, 2013

There are two ground points on the wiring harness at the engine. One is at the front of the drivers side cylinder head, just inboard of the ionic current module and connects to the engine block.

The other is aft of the 'V' just above the starter and if I recall correctly is the ground lead for the starter.

Check the plastic coated nut on these to make sure they are tight.

Member Whattheheck had his starter replaced twice before the dealer figured out to check the current path.

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j.liu · Jun 30, 2013

jcolley said:
There are two ground points on the wiring harness at the engine. One is at the front of the drivers side cylinder head, just inboard of the ionic current module and connects to the engine block.

The other is aft of the 'V' just above the starter and if I recall correctly is the ground lead for the starter.

Check the plastic coated nut on these to make sure they are tight.

Member Whattheheck had his starter replaced twice before the dealer figured out to check the current path.

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Sorry to hijack this thread but, I'm having the disco problem with my car. Before I change the voltage regulator I want to make sure my ground is tighten correctly underneath the car. I've looked but couldn't find it, do you know exactly where it is located?

Thanks!

jcolley · Jun 30, 2013

Here's Dan's thread I mentioned above:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=221298

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engineer33 Discussion starter · Jun 30, 2013

Thank you so muchhhhh!!! for the comment and especially Dan's Thread this could be it i will definetly check it out tomm.

But dont you guys think it could be the CASS or the TRANSMISSION ECU??

voitovick · Oct 4, 2015

This is happening to my car aswell I just hear a Click noise every thing works till I hit the start button then every thing is dead I keep hitting it nothing happens then all of a sudden it works like new again ??

I heard there is some thing called a IVM integrated voltage regulator module that fixes this issue but I have learned that on the M5's they dont have it so now I'm back to square one??

My starter works fine when it does start!
It has a mind of its own some times I can get away with a half week before it acts up!

gmak · Jun 12, 2016

Well, did any of you three guys figure out what the issue was? I sure could use some insight. Went to start my 2006 M5 today - all the lights come on, a single click and nothing. The car has been sitting for 2 days - but was driven well two days ago. Battery seems fine.

I guess I'll try to check the battery cable attachments in the link.

But, I'm not getting any codes. I have no car on a lift suggesting that it's a parasitic battery drain - just no start.

I could see if there was some kind of warning - i.e. that it happened occasionally - but this is just aaaaaaargh frustrating.

ISTA says CAS Module - can't decode the fault code - says it's something with terminal 50, whatever that is.

gmak · Jun 13, 2016

Update:

Well, a little research (some old words of wisdom from JColley and others) says that it could be

1) The three contacts under 3 plastic nuts that need to be cleaned and dielectric-greased;
2) The IBS system stealing the life out of the battery (I'm hoping for this)
3) The CAS module - a relay in it, the ETV (ELV?) or whatever that is part of the steering sensor.
4) The battery is just done.

I've got the intelligent CTEK charger on there. It's reached stage 4. After stage 8 it will be done. It should take all night. Tomorrow, I'll see if it works. (I"m also going to disconnect the IBS for a while... and probably follow the footsteps of what I did to the E60 530xi). If none of this works, I'm going to look at the 3 connectors under the hood (removing the plenum, *sigh* - but I'll probably use the opportunity to replace one of the actuators with ALPINA527i's gears).

After that, it comes down to the stater, which I'm really not into doing this soon into having the new(to me) car.

I'd forgotten how crappy the E60 electronics were, having resolved the problems in the 530xi. Oh well. Baby steps.

gmak · Jun 13, 2016

Battery is fully trickle-charged early this AM. Green light on the CTEK. No dice - no starter - nothing - nada - nyet - rien. Car just sits there with "N" on the cluster, all the usual start up lights on and NO TURNING OVER.

I'll try to let the car go to sleep with the trunk open; disconnect the IBS; disconnect the battery and touch the two cables together for 30 seconds - leave the IBS detached and hook the battery back up and then try to start it.

Next, it's the 3 contact points, I guess. But it's starting to seem like something (the DME?) isn't giving permission to the ignition switch (or whatever) to start the car.

Does anybody have any experience or insight into this? Is it likely to be the CAS? Do I have to take the CAS apart to get at contact 50 or whatever the relay is called in that totally confusing BMW nomenclature?

gmak · Jun 13, 2016

Disconnected IBS - no start;

Disconnected battery, touched cables together for a while - no start;

I guess I'll be doing the throttle actuator on the LHS (driver = bank 2) this weekend and checking that plastic nut on the power connection in the V. *sigh*

Is there any way to check for sure if it's the starter?
Should I take out the mouldings / plastic in the drivers well and check wires in there? I can't open the CAS to look at the relay - so what could I do in there?

Should I just get the thing towed to the dealer and be done with this troubleshooting?

(whine whine, self pity *crickets*)

rt7085 · Jun 14, 2016

If you are going to the dealer with this, you are going to get financially neutered. And they will probably stare at this thing for a bit. And still mess it up.

Pull the plenums and inspect all the contacts. If you have a TA to replace, it sounds like something very worthwhile anyways. And it is really not that much work if you are a bit handy. In fact, if you do the TA (you should do both and be done), you will have to lift the wire loom which requires you to loosen the battery connections to the loom in the front. Take them out, see if they are clean (not corroded). It is the connections in the back of the loom that are important for the starter. See picture. Follow along the battery cables to the generator to make sure these are all looking okay. Also check out all the ground straps and returns. Loosen them completely, clean them and put them back in.

For the starter, do you hear any sorts of clicking when you push the button? You should listen under the hood while somebody else tries to start. I guess you could measure if the bendix gets an activation signal, but the real pain is to get to the wires cleanly (e.g. without damaging them to measure voltage). Plus the plenums are off. You want the engine to turn without starting (such as by pulling the big ignition relay in the DME case; never needed to do this so I am not sure if that would work out). Long story shot, it is going to be a bit of a trail and error exercise.

Don't forget to disconnect the battery when you do all of this.

gmak · Jun 14, 2016

Thank you. That diagram is worth a million words.

I still have to try with the key in the ignition. I'm working through the anger and despair by approaching this systematically. You are right. When I do the actuator (the other one was done by the PO) and replace the gears in it, I can take care of the wiring and connections at the same time.

To answer your questions and comments

Plus the plenums are off. You want the engine to turn without starting (such as by pulling the big ignition relay in the DME case

I think that I will pull the fuse or relay for the fuel pump.

do you hear any sorts of clicking when you push the button

I hear a click when I push the start button and the console lights up like a christmas tree. I don't know if this is from the CAS or the Starter. I will get someone to 'start' the car while I listen under the hood. [EDIT]: I sure think that it's in the engine compartment.

My nightmare is that, six months from now, I'm still troubleshooting and frozen with inaction because I really really really do not want to go to the stealership. I'm all out of vaseline.

gmak · Jun 14, 2016

I tried the 30 second CAS re-initialize by putting a key in the slot and then pressing and holding the start button for 30 seconds.then I took the key out, put it back in and tried to start the car. Didn't start.

I took a peek at my CTEK battery charger and it was at the third light of the 8 light sequence - suggesting something was up - i.e. while I was trying to get the car started, something drained the battery (or earlier) to the point where the charger decided to start its cycle again. I took out one of the old fashioned monster chargers (you know - old technology) with a setting for jump-starting a car. Put that in place cranking lots of juice in through the engine compartment. Then I sat in the car and tried to start over and over. It started around the 5th or 6th time! I've seen this type of behaviour in cars that were very low in the battery (yet all my devices were working and the headlights came on bright).

I took her out for a drive and then put the trickle charger back on. Maybe the battery is going? I had a voltmeter plugged into the cigarette lighter while driving and i was seeing 13.8 volts constantly (you see less at the lighter, it seems, than at the battery).

I still plan to do my throttle actuator on the LHS, that hasn't been replaced yet - and check the plastic nuts on the load cables around the engine - along with grounds etc...

At some point, I'm going to be buying a new AGM battery - especially if there is nothing with the power cables, and this happens again.

gmak · Jun 15, 2016

Took a reading at the battery last night. 12.4V, put it on the CTEK trickle charger = 12.6 and a bit this AM. It's sitting there without IBS and no trickle charger. I will read V at the battery again at the end of the day and see if it starts.

gmak · Jun 20, 2016

All is good, now. No re-occurence. I have bigger fish to fry with throttle actuator head-aches. A boost mysteriously cured my no start - even though the battery had ample power. Now the car starts whenever I want to albeit in limp mode due to the throttle actuator issues.

gwroclaw · Oct 3, 2016

I had a similar problem with my 2008 535IX with the 3.0 twin turbo six (N54). After chasing 12v supply issues to the starter and the solenoid to no avail it turned out to be a bad ground connection between the engine block and the chassis. It kind of makes sense when an ingermittant problem and its symptoms defy common sense trouble shooting that it usually turns out to be a bad ground.

nuts2that · Oct 6, 2016

I have this exact same issue, I have checked two of the plastic nuts, one at the front near the ionic thingy and the one on the wiring harness at the back of the Vee.

Where is the third nut?

The issue is definitely worse if the car has been left longer and gets worse the colder the weather is.

Battery has been replaced and terminals greased and checked. Also battery is on a trickle charger most of the time.

gmak · Apr 15, 2017

The third location is the boost point in the engine compartment.

This came back with a vengeance this winter to where the car was sitting again... I took the plenum off and disconnected everything on the wiring harness in the V. I can hook 12V up to the stater and a little jumper cable into the black socket to simulate the DME ignition signal and the starter will turn the motor. I can put power to that last terminal at the back of the wiring harness and do the same thing.

If I put power anywhere else (i.e. front post on the harness, or at the boost point ) - I just get a loud click. Somewhere along that harness there is a poor connection that is leading to increased resistance and lack of juice for the starter to turn - so I just get the solenoid click.

Tomorrow, I'll be sanding contacts - maybe even taking the plastic cover off of the wiring harness to get a look inside. I've sanded the eyelet and terminal base at the back nut and just get the click when power is applied at the front nut (plus the signal to the solenoid). I thought that I had cleaned the front terminal properly, but I guess not. There is a secondary wire running off of it that may be interfering with the contact. I'll be removing both wires there and putting power directly to the post and try to activate the starter motor - then I'll measure the voltage drop across different point to see where the issue actually is. Finally, if I don't have a clear answer, I'll take the plastic cover off and take a look inside.

gmak · Apr 22, 2017

After the throttle actuators, and then the seized SMG plug, I wound up with a no crank / no start condition (with the single CLICK) in January 2017. Car sat until April when winter sort of went away. My earlier problems in this thread may have been related to the no crank condition - BUT, IIRC way back then there was reduced power with the throttle yellow / red ring on the tach at 4000 RPMs - so definitely more related to the actuators.

To make a long story short, I opened up the wiring harness container (without removing the tabs at the back by the firewall. I removed the big red power cable that runs from one end to another and has the two terminals with big plastic nuts. I dismantled the terminals and sanded (400 grit) all the metal surfaces, put it back together and put it back in the car, hooking up the cable from the back terminal (that goes to the starter.

I tested the starter motor then by putting power at the front terminal, and jumping the ignition plug on the starter to the same alligator clip at the front terminal. When I add power by taking the other end of the booster cable that was at the front terminal and putting it on the +tive terminal of a batter, the engine turned over.

You can see the story here.

I've added this just for completeness. Must be some Bluebee in me somewhere.

CAR WILL NOT START -- 6 months.. GOOD BATTERY AND STARTER

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