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Possible Rod Bearing Failure or Worse...Advice?

25K views 83 replies 30 participants last post by  nicko 
#1 ·
Would love everyone's advice here on my options and thoughts on what you would do if in my position.

Here goes...I'll try to make a long story short...took the car into the dealer last week b/c I noticed a slight knocking noise when starting the car and thought I'd have them look at it and a few other small things too. Didn't think too much of the noise as it would always go away immediately after I started the car, idle was smooth, no knocking, and drove just fine. Dealer inspects the car and finds that the rod bearing may be the culprit of the noise, so they drain the oil and find metal particulates indicating perhaps a spun rod bearing or other internal engine damage. I'm shocked initially, but then realize it's an m5, high revving motor, complex structure, blah blah blah, something is bound to break at some point. Dealer recommendes full engine replacement...not surprised I guess by that after reading other members on the board having similar issues. Thank god for my extended warranty right? Wrong! Warranty sends an inspector down next day and takes photos, talks to techs, etc. One week later (today), they come back and deny my claim. Why? Warranty agent says "Well you have three piece racing wheels sir". Whaaaaa? How the f(*^* does that have anything to do with the engine? I try to remain calm and professional but am at a loss for words and try to explain that that seems to be an inaccurate conclusion as havng aftermarket wheels would have no bearing on the issue with engine. No dice, he passed me off to the supervisor's voicemail and now am waiting for his phone call back to discuss further. Ugh. Stay tuned there more to come...

So now I'm in a bit of a dilema, of which I see at least three options:

1) Plead my case to the warranty company and bring logic/reason to their attention that wheels, or any mods I have for that matter, would not have not have directly caused any issue with the engine. See if we can come to an fair agreement on repairs (either they full cover, or somewhere in between)

2) Source a used engine myself (see some in for sale section right now) and pay a good shop to do the engine swap. I wouldn't have a warranty but potentially a cost effective alternative.

3) Take legal action against the warranty company stating that in the past they had approved claims when I had the same modifications and in this case they sat on their rights and denied the claim due to the high costs of replacing the engine and labor. FYI - they paid 2-3 claims in smaller amts for previous repairs with no issues whatsover. FYI - I have a platinum coverage, exclusionary policy by Consumer Program Administrators.

What do you guys think? Since it's an extended warranty through my financial institution, I fear I'm not covered by Magnusson Moss act so may not be able to stand on that. I'm picking the car back up tomorrow and driving home (dealer says its safe to drive).

Advice as usual is always appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric
 
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#2 · (Edited)
1) Working in my service department at my local dealer I have come to learn warranty companies can choose to cover or not cover if there is visible modifications. I'm sure if you look in your 3rd party warranty fine print you will see information about aftermarket parts and modifications. I would imagine they decided to comb over your car with a fine pick due to the high cost of the engine replacement. To look for any reason to deny coverage for you and it looks like they went after the most obvious thing, wheels. Which doesn't surprise me lol. A lot of the inspectors can't really tell much else besides an aftermarket (loud) exhaust and non-factory wheels. Even if it has nothing to do with the customer's complaint! Most are air heads from what I have seen.

2) I would save this as a last resort if the warranty company doesn't come to agreement on coverage with you.

3) This may or may not work. I would also suggest this as a last resort if negotiations do not work out with them. They are by all means, abiding by their legal contact that you signed for when you purchased the warranty. It's up to their discretion.

Out of curiosity the other times you have taken your car to the dealer to make a warranty claim on a repair did you have all your mods on? Wheels, etc? When I take mine in I swap the wheels back to stock that's it. My exhaust is still booming loud though. :confused3 I got lucky the last time around.

I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully it doesn't turn out into a long ordeal. Sometimes I think to myself maybe I shouldn't have modded the car then I wouldn't have to worry. But where would the fun be in the ownership? lol.
 
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#6 ·
SuckaGDog, you are likely right. Thanks for your perspective. I'll likely try to resolve this with them through negotiation first before anything else. I'd do the same if I were them, go through in every detail and see if there is anything that could void the terms given the price of repair. However, they should have been more creative/smart enough to come up with a better justification then my wheels.

Also, yes, I did have my wheels and mods when they approved previous smaller repairs, so nothing has changed on the car other than some minor aesthetics.



F^%K warranty companies, I cant believe anyone still gives away money to be treated like a begger in return.

I felt the same earlier today, it made me even consider just buying a brand new car so as to not deal with this aftermarket warranty BS.

Sorry for your troubles OP, I just had to vent.
note to self: take aftermarket wheels off car before taking car to dealer.

Holy sh*t man that sucks. :(
Ha! You never know man.

As long as it's not written in the contract, then you can threaten them under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Good to know. I'll re-read the fine print and if it comes to that, will certainly be lawyering up!


I'll keep you guys posted on developments, I am certain it will be a long, drawn out ordeal.

Eric
 
#7 ·
That really sucks to hear. I have a 3rd party warranty from GE warranty solutions and I've had nothing but issues with them when I try to have something covered. Also, as far as I know, the reason for them denying coverage has to be tied directly to the issue. It makes sense if they say something on your suspension/steering or brakes will be denied warranty coverage due to the wheels, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the engine. I wish you the best and I hope you fight for it!

-Mark
 
#9 ·
What a PITA, aftermarket warranties are supposed to be peace of mind, not pieces of ****! :hihi:

you may want to contact Bruce M. here on the board, he seems to be the warranty expert. i've contacted him with a few warranty related questions and he has been very helpful and prompt with responses.

hope it works out.
Good suggestion, will do. Maybe he can give me some guidance as well.
 
#11 ·
Ok fellas, just re-read the fine print of my exclusionary contract....let me know how you interpret this language. What this agreement does not cover...

"...FOR A BREAKDOWN CAUSED BY OR INVOLVING MODIFICATIONS UNLESS THOSE MODIFICATIONS WERE PERFORMED BY THE MANUFACTURER, EXCEPT THOSE WHICH MEET THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS (E.G. OVERSIZED TIRES, LIFT KIT, AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE PARTS OR SYSTEMS"

Mind you I have a muffler delete, which is not an aftermarket performance part technically since no non oem part was used.

THis is the only clause related to modifications in the entire agreement.
 
#12 ·
Call the supervisor and mention the M-M Warranty Act. Clearly wheels have NOTHING to do with the engine throwing a rod, and they'd be stupid to attempt to claim it as such. If they continue to deny, a prompt letter from a lawyer shouldn't cost you more than a $150 and should speed up the process.

Also, I should ask - are your wheels OEM sizes or are they larger spec?
 
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#13 ·
Bah just saw your signature. I would find documentation to show that your final tire diameter is very close to stock (assuming it is). That would further prevent them from blaming it on the wheels.
 
#16 ·
^^^ The problem is that the OP's oil was drained and metal particles were found. I too have this random noise but after draining my own oil I saw no evidence of any metal particles. Engine runs like a champ even with 95k on the clock!
 
#17 ·
So far, here is where I am at...

1. Having the battery replaced as the other issue I was having was high battery drain due to low/dead battery, so I can confirm myself whether that may be a possible cause for 'startup knock' as suggested in one of the posts in that thread link above.

2. I'm prepared to have a very technical discussion if need be with the warranty company about tire sizes/final rolling diameter with data to show it is within the acceptable limits of manufacturer. Additionally, with the exhaust, or non-exhaust since it is a muffler delete. I doubt it will change their decision, but will start here before taking more aggressive actions

3. I'd like to get a second opinion from my own trusted indy mechanic and see if they come to the same conclusion as the dealer to ensure this is not a jumping to the most extreme case situation. Short of seeing the oil they drained myself and pulling apart the block, this seems to be a logical next step.

4. The itch for a 911 or GTR has gotten much stronger in the last 24 hrs. :D

To be continued....thanks guys.
 
#18 ·
@OP - Did you personally see the metal flakes/particles that the dealer found in your oil?
 
#19 ·
SoCal - I did not, am planning to today when I pick it up as they saved the oil. Showed it to inspector though. This is why I will refrain from jumpimg to a conclusion just bc the dealer says it. It's worth the time to check all the facts on my end before arguing my case to the warranty company for sure.
 
#22 ·
Good suggestion as well. I'll see if I can take the oil they drained out, but if not may have to wait to have the new oil they just changed in to cycle through enough to have a good sample.
 
#21 ·
Also, couldn't a simple rod bearing replacement and crank repair be a much cheaper fix than a complete engine replacement? Hell, if warranty would cover a full engine replacement, I wouldn't interject but if they aren't going to cover anything couldn't this be another option?
 
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#27 ·
I would still listen to Revo as I have used that same act when a dealer had a go at me for my exhaust and it had nothing to do with my transmission (another car). They caved in when I lawyered up.
 
#28 ·
Here is the latest...

Spoke to a supervisor at the warranty company, he explained the following reasons led to decision on denying the claim. I'll let you guys come to your own conclusion

1. The exhaust delete contributed to the rod bearing faillure b/c it relieves engine backpressure, giving more hp. I asked to please explain what evidence they used to arrive at that conclusion, but was only provided a general theoretical explanation of how exhausts work.

2. They have photos/video of my car (e.g.dyno, muffler delete vid) which leads them to believe the vehicle is 'driven hard' or 'abused'.

3. Future warranty claims would undergo the same scrutiny whether related or not related to my current mods.

4. I still have coverage as of now, have the option of cancelling and getting a pro rated refund.

Fun stuff. I'll be getting a second opinion on the bearing issue from my indy mechanic as a next step to confirm the issue has been accurately diagnosed.
 
#31 ·
How did they come across the videos of your car? It was that easy for them to spot your car online? Lol
 
#29 ·
Rod bearings can be changed without engine removal. I would put money on the estimate given by the dealer including engine removal/reinstallation. If it goes on to crank bearings, well that's a different story. Rod bearings should be about 12 hours of labor if I were guessing. I plan on changing mine this summer (DIY) as a precautionary measure.

As far as the warranty goes, lawyer up. I'm not one, but if I recall correctly, burden of proof lies with the company to prove the modifications caused the damage.

Contact the BBB, file a complaint and cite MM act in the complaint. Do they have videos of your car on the dyno reading the VIN number? You have two M5s, right? Can they prove that?

Rod bearings are problematic prematurely in the S85, modified or not. There is more evidence to support this in stock engines than to support their exhaust "cause".

Go at them like a spider monkey...
 
#30 ·
Putting a car on a dyno is now considered abuse :confused: I would tell that to the automotive industry that do this all the time hiha
 
#32 ·
I will provide further information in a separate post, but third party warranty companies have hired IT firms to track forums and YouTube. They monitor them to have evidence to deny your claim. I just finished going to trial against my third party warranty for denying my warranty claim. In court they presented EVERY post I had made on this forum and used that as evidence of modification. My suggestion is if you have a third party warranty, REMOVE ALL POST AND VIDEOS. They will use those to deny your warranty. They have it written in their policy the right to deny/cancel your warranty based on modifications. My lawyer asked how they were able to find my username, and other information. Their lawyer said All third party warranty company are using a very sophisticated IT firms to track their policy holders.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
#50 ·
So, a late reply to this. How completely effed up this is. I read this earlier and then while viewing the main page, noticed this at the bottom:

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I wonder if the legal counsel had permission to use your posts.
 
#33 ·
It must be the hre wheels. Haha. Jk. No idea. For all I know they are monitoring this thread too. Resourceful they are.
 
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