Holtor

LOL. We both have our points. It certaintly would have been nice to see MB, Audi and perhaps Lexus global sales during that same time period to make some comparisons.

In the end, perhaps BMW over did the new cars, but even so, they are certaintly selling very well. If it worries them then during the mid-year refresh they might tone them down to win back some of the enthusiast crowd. It hard to redo the E65 butt and the E60 butt even during a refresh so all they can really change is the headlights and front end, grill and such. Personally I feel the refreshed E65 is still going to have some kind of eyebrow. Running it horizontally as they've done now was a mistake. It makes the car look sad, just like the new 6 series. The E60's eyebrows run at an angel, going back, giving it a mean look. One problem with the E60 is how far the eyebrow extends into the body... they have could cut off an inch and still have the mean look along with being fairly traditional.

You have to wonder.. perhaps BMW wanted to stirr up some controversy? Think about it.. controversy leads to more publicity. More publicity leads to more people wondering whats going on and looking at the cars, and many apparently buying what they see, atleast for now. MB and Audi models all look the same and it's my belief that they will be sharply restyled like BMW has done with the 7/5/3. The new S Class interior which screams E65 with a lcd screen in a bubble on the dash and iDrive, a column mount shifter, along with a bangle butt on the exterior.

Suffice it to say, the entire car industry is producing some very controversial designs, not just BMW.

vndkshn

As for number 3, are you saying that the past performance of the e38, who's sales DROPPED over the period of its life is the the reason the e65 is a success? That would only make sense if the the e38 was a very much disliked car in terms of appearance, but there was a big untapped market that did not like its looks and/or features. In either case, I find it amazing how well the e65 sells compared to the e38.

As for number 5, that could easily be explained, we don't know. Maybe they were just looking for a change. Maybe they left because they did not like where the company was going. Who knows except them and others in BMW executive. Without an interview from one of them telling us they left because of the designs, we shouldn't jump to that conclusion. Maybe they all were rich and just wanted to sit back and blow it.

It is definately a great discussion... even though we have gone through this several times of the past 6 months or so.

MEnthusiast

Not exactly- is it possible that the typical sales pattern for a S class or 7 series is to have falling sales through out the time frame?

Consider that the model comes out and its the hot new model- everyone in the target market just has to have one for the country club. So they manage to get one. Now they have them. Whose left to get new ones?

Were not talking about ipods here- or even about 3 series. Im not saying you have to ignore the numbers, but I am saying you have to realize the numbers need to be understood in terms of how the car market works. And I dont know if I understand all of it so by no means would I be an expert. Id sure like to know if/where I am wrong though.

#5- is a tell tale sign of problems- when many insiders leave its like you say, they dont like what they see coming down the pike. The thing about that is- maybe the changes will improve things- but those leaving are the ones responsible for past success. I dont know, but if I were running the show, I dont let the people who got me there leave.

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00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others

masinari

SO IF ALL OF THE ABOVE WAS TRUE FOR BMW, HOW COME BANGLE GOT FIRED?

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Various Yamahas R1's, Honda Fireblade, Honda NSR 250 Sport Production racing bike, Ducati 996 SPS

Holtor

He didn't. It's just a rumour started online. Exactly like the E65 is being completely redesigned for MY2004 rumour that AutoWeek started which was completely wrong.

If this one is true or not we will just have to wait and see.

pdiack

While I'm positive BMW appreciates enthusiastic groups like ours, they are not a niche manufacturer, and must please the mainstream public. The mainstream has voted, sales worldwide are UP with these new designs (per Holtor's stats). We can write letters but I don't think it'll do a bit of differerence.

An example, is Porsche. I worked with Porsche NA during a transitional phase and they received TONS of negative letters regarding style changes in 996 and the introduction of the Cayenne. Did they listen to the enthusiasts who wrote those letters? No, not at all. They listened to the public, and the public has voted - Porsche sales are setting records.

BMW listens to the cash register for public opinion - and that's it.

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MEnthusiast

I think we've lost site of the original intent of the thread- the point here is- if you feel like letting your feelings be known- here is a good place to do it.

You are right of course, they will do whatever generates increased sales.

But look at the sales drop off on 996s. And look at what the 997s look like: 993s............

young-nyc

997's? i want to see a pic...can someone provide a link?

__________________
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2001 540ia
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Previous Cars:
why bother? I don't have them anymore

MEnthusiast

Ive seen the CGI enhanced spy pics around- I will search around and see what I can find- I dont know if it was in one of the British mags I get.

pdiack

Here is a thread Gustav put up --

Porsche 997 pics