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Drop-in filter and scoops || Alternative to the overpriced option

30K views 45 replies 23 participants last post by  AutoVation 
#1 · (Edited)
After looking into the aftermarket for a drop-in filter and scoops. Seems like RPI was 'POPULAR' but honestly, WAY overpriced, as was AFE with there $255 scoops..
After seeing also that the expensive BMC filters have had a bad track record of falling apart, and that air scoops in general are all equally made (please fanboys save me the .2hp gain from a scoop you thinks GRABS more air LOL) redirect air into the air intake track, simple enough, no heavy technically research here.

K&N drop in filter: $44 each
BMW E60 M5 S85 5.0L > Engine > Intake > ES#2500847 Air Filter - Left - 33-2352

Mechunik Aluminum Air Intake Scoops: $99 in red or black (still a bit pricey but better then 200$+ from others)
Mechunik Aluminum Air Intake Scoops For BMW 5 Series and M5 - 2004-2009 - E60/E61 From Bimmian.com

I think this is a great priced alternative for the S85, to get more air, and more free flowing air compared to the overpriced options out there with no effect on performance compared to the others.
 
#2 ·
Are you in the market for an E60 M5 or you just like familiarize yourself with all the products? Just wondering lol.
 
#4 ·
Hey when you try your experiment, please do a Dyno before and after. We would all very interested to hear if your theory pans out.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Not a theory really, its basically exactly the same setup lol it would work the same. Plus, for intakes, dynos are really inconsistent, unless big gains are shown. And the only big gain is from removing the charcoal filters. And Its pretty obvious, if you logged with the overpriced scoops and filters and this setup, the IAT's would be exactly the same. So power would be the same.
 
#6 ·
Not to derail the topic or put this down, the reason RPI would cost more than any of these other brands mentioned is because lots of R&D costs went into proving and adjustments to create the HP/torque gains from the RPI scoops. Now those imitations may be designed the same way but at RPI's R&D costs...the price difference is only maybe $100? I choose to support RPI for this exact reason and any other company that take the first step into designing after-market products as long the pricing isn't too far off. Again to each to his own...
 
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#10 · (Edited)
There scoops, what R&D went into these haha a few hours.. Saving a 100 bucks on just the scoops alone isn't the only issue, but why pay for a overpriced product?
RPI is selling there filters and scoops for 350.. This alternative I posted would cost below 200, that's over $150 in savings for something that would give such little HP its almost non measurable. So I guess members would rather ditch out the extra 150 bucks because its an popular item?

I will always buy BMC over K&N only because I have personally seen the level of quality and performance they provide compared to the competition. We used them on our Yoshimura/Suzuki AMA bikes and won numerous championships, primarily thanks to Matt Mladin :)

Anyways, the thing that is interesting about the K&N filter is that there is less filter area compared to the BMC......just something to think about.
I hope they changed there quality:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...disintegrating-anyone-has-similar-issues.html

I always see these threads about how something is over priced.. It really makes me wonder how many members on the board realize how small the 5 series market really is. It seems to always be when the platform drops in price that the frequency of these threads pop up more often. In relation to this thread, fact is, yes, it's just a piece of aluminum, but numerous times in seeing these types of threads, I notice that there is no mention of the ENGINEERING that goes into producing these upgrades for the 5 series platform. It is already hard enough to get the bigger aftermarket companies to produce quality products due to the consumer base for the E60 market. What's on every manufacturers agenda/ priority list when a new BMW comes out? Its ALWAYS the 3 series, right? Look at the new idrive system (NBT) for example. Its not even on the drawing boards yet, and won't even be considered for release on the E60 platform until 2014 ( if it ever even comes out), but they are already working on integration for the E9x. As tax paying citizens, or even business owners, I am sure a lot of you guys will feel the same way, that if a service or product (that you may potentially put time into) isn't going to help keep your business out of the red, you guys will not even consider going through the planning stage, no less the R&D stage. Until attitudes of 5series owners change, the fact is, we will NEVER get QUALITY products at a reasonable price, in a timely manner. I am in no way related to RPi, but I have a lot of respect for the RPi crew ( Eloy, Gabe, Joshua). They are but a handful of aftermarket tuners, who have always had their ears to the E60 community and have been there to produce QUALITY parts for our cars, from the BEGINNING. The fact that they have such a good working relationship with ESS simply attests to their company standards. Don't take this post, or my word for fact, take the time and give them a call. I called them a years ago and to this day, have never had such a conversation with any company representative, who was so willing to share information, or with the willingness to educated a potential customer. It is for this very reason, the extra $100 for this "piece of aluminum" is well worth it to me. None of these companies listened to your needs in the beginning why should they deserve your business now? Is the extra $100 THAT much? We drive M5's brothers, That's like a little more than a tank of gas for us these days, but that extra $100 goes a long way to keeping smaller tuners such as RPi around that much longer, to continue, and produce quality products for the f10 and BMW's for years to come. I hope my point of views make sense. Two watches, both keep time, which would you prefer:
The rolex or the casio? The choice is yours. Hope you enjoy that extra tank of gas you just saved. Rant off - Anthony
OK, were talking about scoops, what QUALITY and ENGINEERING are you talking about? They redirect air into the intake track to the air box. Its a SIMPLE task.. I hope your not saying that a scoop may scoop in more air, your gaining more HP? Think about how lil power if any your even gaining from a scoop. Saying one may scoop in a lil bit more than the other and give u .2hp gain? lol

I haven't seen any IAT or Flow data from the scoops, only dynos? Dynos can be skewed without a problem to show gains. And im pretty sure scoops themselves increase a very SMALL amount of HP if any.. Which isn't even noticeable.

Show me some before and after datalogs of IAT and or flow? Not dynos.
Im pretty sure dynos, will show gains from having no charcoal filter and a higher flowing filter compared to stock, not because of scoops lol. And like I said dynos can be skewed so easily from run to run especially when talking about increase in HP from filters/scoops etc.

This isn't a thread about arguing the matter but an alternative better price for all members.
Were talking about air intake scoops. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to design and make em. lol.. Why pay an for ridiculous overpriced scoop? I guess you guys don't care for your money or the principle of overpaying? or just haven't been in the aftermarket world for long, or understand performance parts.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I will always buy BMC over K&N only because I have personally seen the level of quality and performance they provide compared to the competition. We used them on our Yoshimura/Suzuki AMA bikes and won numerous championships, primarily thanks to Matt Mladin :)

Anyways, the thing that is interesting about the K&N filter is that there is less filter area compared to the BMC......just something to think about.
 
#8 ·
I always see these threads about how something is over priced.. It really makes me wonder how many members on the board realize how small the 5 series market really is. It seems to always be when the platform drops in price that the frequency of these threads pop up more often. In relation to this thread, fact is, yes, it's just a piece of aluminum, but numerous times in seeing these types of threads, I notice that there is no mention of the ENGINEERING that goes into producing these upgrades for the 5 series platform. It is already hard enough to get the bigger aftermarket companies to produce quality products due to the consumer base for the E60 market. What's on every manufacturers agenda/ priority list when a new BMW comes out? Its ALWAYS the 3 series, right? Look at the new idrive system (NBT) for example. Its not even on the drawing boards yet, and won't even be considered for release on the E60 platform until 2014 ( if it ever even comes out), but they are already working on integration for the E9x. As tax paying citizens, or even business owners, I am sure a lot of you guys will feel the same way, that if a service or product (that you may potentially put time into) isn't going to help keep your business out of the red, you guys will not even consider going through the planning stage, no less the R&D stage. Until attitudes of 5series owners change, the fact is, we will NEVER get QUALITY products at a reasonable price, in a timely manner. I am in no way related to RPi, but I have a lot of respect for the RPi crew ( Eloy, Gabe, Joshua). They are but a handful of aftermarket tuners, who have always had their ears to the E60 community and have been there to produce QUALITY parts for our cars, from the BEGINNING. The fact that they have such a good working relationship with ESS simply attests to their company standards. Don't take this post, or my word for fact, take the time and give them a call. I called them a years ago and to this day, have never had such a conversation with any company representative, who was so willing to share information, or with the willingness to educated a potential customer. It is for this very reason, the extra $100 for this "piece of aluminum" is well worth it to me. None of these companies listened to your needs in the beginning why should they deserve your business now? Is the extra $100 THAT much? We drive M5's brothers, That's like a little more than a tank of gas for us these days, but that extra $100 goes a long way to keeping smaller tuners such as RPi around that much longer, to continue, and produce quality products for the f10 and BMW's for years to come. I hope my point of views make sense. Two watches, both keep time, which would you prefer:
The rolex or the casio? The choice is yours. Hope you enjoy that extra tank of gas you just saved. Rant off - Anthony
 
#34 ·
I found an m5 look a like made by the chinese, I am gonna but that because they must be the same.hiha

Look I am not saying that there may be a big difference between the products but engineering matters. Think about when guys port their heads. all your really doing is making edges smoother, but somehow it make a big difference....
 
#9 ·
Anthony -- thats an easy one for me...I'll take my Rolex and RPi scoops.

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Number Fashion accessory
 
#15 ·
Anthony -- thats an easy one for me...I'll take my Rolex and RPi scoops.

View attachment 170090
LoL - Woody, N1. I sir aspire to be a baron like you one day. Can't think of too many other jobs that would allow driving your own s85 aeound for work everyday.

There scoops, what R&D went into these haha a few hours.. Saving a 100 bucks on just the scoops alone isn't the only issue, but why pay for a overpriced product?
RPI is selling there filters and scoops for 350.. This alternative I posted would cost below 200, that's over $150 in savings for something that would give such little HP its almost non measurable. So I guess members would rather ditch out the extra 150 bucks because its an popular item?



I hope they changed there quality:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...disintegrating-anyone-has-similar-issues.html



OK, were talking about scoops, what QUALITY and ENGINEERING are you talking about? They redirect air into the intake track to the air box. Its a SIMPLE task.. I hope your not saying that a scoop may scoop in more air, your gaining more HP? Think about how lil power if any your even gaining from a scoop. Saying one may scoop in a lil bit more than the other and give u .2hp gain? lol

I haven't seen any IAT or Flow data from the scoops, only dynos? Dynos can be skewed without a problem to show gains. And im pretty sure scoops themselves increase a very SMALL amount of HP if any.. Which isn't even noticeable.

Show me some before and after datalogs of IAT and or flow? Not dynos.
Im pretty sure dynos, will show gains from having no charcoal filter and a higher flowing filter compared to stock, not because of scoops lol. And like I said dynos can be skewed so easily from run to run especially when talking about increase in HP from filters/scoops etc.

This isn't a thread about arguing the matter but an alternative better price for all members.
Were talking about air intake scoops. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to design and make em. lol.. Why pay an for ridiculously overpriced scoop? I guess you guys don't care for your money or the principle of overpaying? or just haven't been in the aftermarket world for long, or understand performance parts.
Just as it is impossible to change a zebra's stripes, the fox will always eat the scorpion, but I do like how you continue to evade the basis of my post.

"what R&D went into these haha a few hours:" To copy the Rpi scoops? I can fab you a copy in less than an hour, but I really like how you fail to ask yourself; why the Rpi scoops are the size and shape that they are today. I have been to the Rpi facility, and can attest that Eloy has a bin full of various prototypes for the R&D scoops.. clearly more than just "a few hours" that you seem so familiar with, since you have been in the "after market world" much longer than me, as you have already insinuated, and quick to assume.

You seem so hell bent on saving $150 over the entire point of my previous post, how about I just save you even more money, by providing you with this link: DIY (Home made) Ram Air Scoop - 5Series.net - Forums why don't you just do what the 525i guys do, and oh, hey.. Enjoy that THREE tanks of gas you just "saved" because next time you get a NEW car, and there is NO aftermarket support, you will realize, why so many members here that do APPRECIATE small outfits like RPi.

There are parts of your post I will no bother to address, because if you actually use the "search" button: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/search.php you'd find that all your answers have been addressed.

I really want to reserve judgement for the most part, but there are so many aspects of your response that lead one to believe that you have special interests in this Mechunik brand ( who by the way is CLEARLY copying the RPi scoops). You are in the process of attaining an e60 M5, and I really do hope you enjoy your beast. Had you been a newer member, it just might explain your enthusiasm, and quite bold responses, but I noticed that you have been a member on this board since 2007, so clearly, you couldn't have missed the entire R&D process that RPi went through with the products that they offer for the e60/ s85. :dunno:

I am not for saving "a few bucks in this case" I don't see how capitalism would be efficient or even exist if everyone else shared your thoughts and ideals.
 
#17 · (Edited)
man, as a business owner and as a consumer i can see both sides of the coin. however, being cheap for the sake of being cheap is something i cannot subscribe to. bro....its $100. like take it easy. do you know how much these cars cost? do you know how much the cost to maintain? do you know that if one little thing goes bad its gonna cost you THOUSANDS of dollars to fix? you cant really bring these cheap knock offs to this forum and expect a pleasant response. true, im not one for wasting my hard earned money, but there comes a point where you just pay for quality, R&D and skip the bullshit when its $100 lol. like seriously. are you gonna show up at a meet and boast to all the other guys....guys who have $7,000 3 piece wheels, $4,000 BBK upgrades, etc how you saved $100 on your knock off scoops? im sure they will greet you as a hero ;)

look, knock offs happen....but most of the time its a $1,000 front lip being knocked off in abs plastic bc the damn things crack so easily lol.....maybe then i will lend you my ear but for air scoops....i just paid the piper, happily.
 
#20 ·
I for one Love my Rpi scoops and wouldn't have it any other way. But good luck on your venture.
 
#21 ·
I believe there are dyno's out there showing that the K&N lose HP. I am pretty sure that when I spoke with Eloy, he told me the K&N lost HP & the BMC is the only one that gained HP.

I can't buy a 458 because I own a business & I need a blue collar vehicle (corvette) for when I go to the vendors. I cannot show up to a vendor of mine & ask for good pricing while pulling up in a ferrari.:7:
 
#22 ·
I agree with you man, I think the scoops are a bit overpriced for what they are also. I'm not bashing RPI, they seem to make quality products. I just think its too much cash for some folded sheet metal. I'd go with the knockoffs too. Though I made my own set for next to nothing. They are very easy to make. I welded mine together but you could just as easily rivet them. As for the filters I went with the AFE reverse cone drop in's.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Another thing I don't understand...
RPI prices there E60 scoops for everything other then the M5 for $100..
RPi - Race Precision, Inc.

But an altered version of this scoop is $100 more on top of that price!.. I think some of you have too much money and are not seeing the point of being taken advantage of because your in the M5 market.

Don't see the need for everyone getting defensive.. Its your choice.. Don't get crazy and butt hurt.. Im giving members an alternative to save some money and use it on other mods, or the principle of not OVERPAYING for a product.
Some of you members make me laugh.. I bought them because there real! There high quality, R&D.. There scoops, basic metal. There not the first people to invent the idea of ram air. All scoops do the same thing, ram air into the intake track. Simple easy task. There isn't anything high quality or special about them.

Some products are worth the money, even if there over priced, I highly agree with this, like headers, a tune, etc. But were talking scoops here. With these lower priced scoops don't see the need to pay 200 for them anymore.






Nice! exactly.
 
#23 ·
All this to save $150 bucks which is what like a week of gas for me hiha

Bottom line get what makes you happy, but don't expect everyone to fall in line behind you on the products you pick.
 
#27 ·
Don't want anyone to fall in line.. Just sharing an alternative to a product and it seems some members aren't happy about it.
I get it, you bought the expensive versions and defending your product you bought that's great.

But this is for new guys who are in the market, and don't want to get taken advantage of for NO REASON for an extra $150, when they can get some nice OEM black gloss kidney grills with that money they save.
Scoops are simple easy product. There isn't anything quality, high room for error etc.
 
#24 ·
The RPI scoops have been argued forever on this board (and others). Eloy/RPI expended effort figuring out the exact geometry of the scoops to get the peak benefit. People finally figured out they work and now there are tons of copies. Same thing with other products RPI either designed first or made popular. And products that other top vendors on this board have designed and produced as well.

This is not an example of big corporations copying each other and dropping their pants on price. We're talking about small businesses here, run by good people, who help all of our members.

Now the question is, what type of person are you? The kind that supports the shop/vendors who spend countless time on forums such as these answering peoples' questions and offering cutting edge products for our cars - ie. innovative products, not copies. Or the kind of person that feels everything is about business and will always look for the best deal?

There is no wrong answer here. It's about who you are. To each his own.
 
#26 · (Edited)
It's not the fact that you have a different opinion and looking for options, it's the way you come off in your first post, and subsequent ones. To me it sounds condescending, and almost as if you're trying to stir the pot with words like "fanboys," and "spare me the..." etc.

I don't mind thoughtful and mature debates, but this thread is getting out of hand.

Congrats on your upcoming M5 ownership, and as I'm sure you know by now that m5board is a relatively tight knit community.

Curious, as former 335 owner, where/are you a bimmerpost member?
 
#28 ·
It's not the fact that you have a different opinion and looking for options, it's the way you come off in your first post, and subsequent ones. To me it sounds condescending, and almost as if you're trying to stir the pot with words like "fanboys," and "spare me the..." etc.

I don't mind thoughtful and mature debates, but this thread is getting out of hand.

Congrats on your upcoming M5 ownership, and you'll soon find out out m5board is a relatively tight knit community.

Curious, as former 335 owner, where/are you a bimmerpost member?
Thanks man. I appreciate it... Yea, still part of bimmerpost, N54tech, and bimmerboost..
 
#31 ·
As the E60 platform ages, we'll get more and more of these kind of posts. Look at what has happened to the brilliant E39 M5 - they're taking them apart and building wagons out of them, lol! But really, I'm all for saving money but disregarding all the hard work and R&D done just so that some lowlife company can make knock offs, its really douchy.

Here's the punchline though...these new owners should try to save money as much as they can now because once their E60 starts to give them problems - it will bite them so hard in the derrier.
 
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#32 ·
Scoops/Filters

I have no problems with the issues the OP has presented. We all feel strongly at times about various positions we take. This OP is no different from those who have strongly held opposing views. I have thoroughly enjoyed the positions from both sides. I have been a board member for sometime and appreciate other alternatives that perform the same but are not overpriced. I have read many, many posts about the scoops and the filters and it still remains unclear to me [for others it may not be] of any significant gains from one scoop compared to another or one filter compared to another. There always has been a big debate over these issues and when all is said and done, it still remains as clear as mud. I guess it boils down to what you have personal confidence in or who you may trust as well as what you may have experienced. I don't mind people making money from what I might purchase from them. That's why they are in business, to make money and hopefully deliver a competent product. But I don't want to be gouged either just because "M" is on the model designation. Hey, at the end of the day, it's your car, do your own thing!:dunno:
 
#35 ·
I think AngelSlayer hit the nail on the head. Lets put things into perspective:

RPI
Spends the time and money to develop the Ram Air Scoops for the E60 Community. This means spending money on labor, dyno equipment, materials, and the list goes on. Comes back with a proven product and sells for $199 for the E60 M5 application.

Knockoff Brand
Buys RPI scoop, has manufacturer copy then goes into mass production. Sells at $99

Seems to me, if anyone is overpriced it would be the cheap knockoff when it really comes down to it. Why? Take the amount of money spent on R&D to develop a proven product compared to that of someone just manufacturing a copy and I think everyone can agree the total costs to manufacture that product are higher for the company who originally developed it. If you don't consider these costs, sure $99 is cheaper and the product will more than likely perform the same if in fact its a copy.

But lets put this whole thing into perspective.....we are talking about a $100 difference which is an insignificant amount when compared to the true costs of M5 ownership. With that in mind, lets be real......M5 owners are luxury consumers and therefore pricing for a particular product will be reflected. As the product life cycle of the M5 starts to trend out of maturity so does the trends of the demographics of M5 buyers. For the E60 M5, we are very near this stage and so more price-conscious consumers will enter the market and with that, demand for cheaper prices on products will increase. A perfect example would be developing a ram air scoop for two consumers, M5 and a Civic. I think we can all agree that if the same amount of R&D went into both products and the material costs were the same, the Civic product price would reflect its consumers and therefore would be cheaper.

At the end of the day I say if you want to save some cash $99 is a great price for that product and will probably perform the same. However, as most stated previously, supporting the original manufacturer of these products only ensures continued development of new products in the future. And lets be frank, $100 is nothing to be too concerned about on this board :p
 
#41 ·
Well said Justin!!!

I think the "rule for the world" should be - Whoever comes up with the original ideal, test it, develop it and bring it to market before anyone else should be able to exploit it commercially. Sounds monopolistic doesn't it? Well, hell yes!!! Isn't that why the US Patent Office was created for? I do wonder if RPI applied for a patent for the scoops. Maybe the legal fees and applications costs outweigh the potential revenue for these scoops, so... But in the real world, even if you have a patent for something, douchy, lowlife companies will come out of the woodwork with knock offs anyways. Look at all the big brands - they all deal with and compete against their own knock offs. Freakin' sucks!!! Creativity, originality and innovation should be prized, respected and rewarded, not robbed blind and raped senselessly.
 
#36 ·
Bro, I bought two sets at the full price. Even knowing that I could have made my own or bought knock offs so no, guys are not trying to defend paying that price now that it's supposedly too late to go back.

If I were in the market for another set I'd STILL go RPi. My M5 is my baby, like a family member. If I can't afford to put the best mods on here...I wait until the budget allows for it. Period. But that's how I treat my car...maybe you treat yours differently lol
 
#38 · (Edited)
Trying to save $100 dollars on a mod for an m5 is like eating at an all-you-can-eat buffet and ordering a diet drink to save on caloric intake...
 
#39 ·
I bought the RPI products because they had a great reputation and I trust the opinions of fellow board members. I do think you have some valid points on the scoops but to be honest your personaliity and delivery is a bit irritating. I never have seen someone use LOL and HAHA more since my 10 year old niece visited.
 
#42 ·
I remember Eloy saying that the cost to patent it outweighed the actual money being made for such a small production of cars.
 
#43 ·
I have read a lot of threads about the RPI scoops, BMCs and block off plates across several boards. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, let's face it, we are driving M5s, not Honda Civics with an exhaust and a K&N filter. I am in the market for scoops and filters and willing to pay the premium. If you can afford an M5, then you should consider the companies that support our communities, not the companies that look to take away the new M5 owners who might be price conscientious of their mods. Yes, is it a $100 premium, but at least I feel comfortable about buying a product that is being backed by a reputable company.

My 2 cents.:grinyes:
 
#45 ·
Realistically, a US patent would be almost pointless considering the cost and the fact that most copies are manufactured overseas. The only thing that a US patent would protect against is people selling copies within the US. So technically, copies could still easily be manufactured and sold outside the US. Additionally, RPI would have to deal with attorneys to protect their product.....again more costs. At the end of the day its probably just too much hassle and cost.
 
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