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post #21 of 129 Old 22nd November 2010, 03:10 AM
DFrankm5
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SMG to Manual Conversion

I am quite positive a conversion can be accomplished if you have the funding and technical ability to pull it off. I wanted a 6 speed and was fortunate to find one. It fits my driving style well and potential maintenance issues. I am positive the SMG will out-shift me any day of the week. I really don't care! The M brand is something we can all rally around instead of separating ourselves over who has the better car because of SMG vs. 6 speed. Don't want to hi-jack the thread but I am much more concerned about the better/safer driver.
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post #22 of 129 Old 22nd November 2010, 04:43 AM
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The SMG is quite brilliant IMO. After owning the car for 3 years, I still can't get over the fact on how the SMG is able to mimmick manual shifting without a 3rd pedal. No way in hell can a 6 speed driver shift faster, cleaner and rev macht the SMG. The 6 speed option was nothing more than BMW's response to the public outcry on the SMG. But frankly, I think all that outcry was from old foggies that didn't know how to drive the SMG, they were treating the SMG as a regular automatic transmission, experiencing tranny/rear end slamming, etc.

Anyways, 10-20 years down the road, if the tranny fails, I'm sure there won't be a shortage of solutions offered by BMW or the countless aftermarket vendors out there. Converting a SMG M5 into a 6 speed seems to be a lot of work. Just to figure out how to mount the 3rd pedal that will provide the perfect pivot angle to manually actuate the clutch assembly. But, I won't be surprised if an aftermarket vendor does come out with a conversion kit, just a matter of time.

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post #23 of 129 Old 23rd November 2010, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 Jed View Post
The SMG is quite brilliant IMO. After owning the car for 3 years, I still can't get over the fact on how the SMG is able to mimmick manual shifting without a 3rd pedal. No way in hell can a 6 speed driver shift faster, cleaner and rev macht the SMG. The 6 speed option was nothing more than BMW's response to the public outcry on the SMG. But frankly, I think all that outcry was from old foggies that didn't know how to drive the SMG, they were treating the SMG as a regular automatic transmission, experiencing tranny/rear end slamming, etc.

I am no old foggie at the age of 26. Like I said before I am sure I could outdrive 99% of you with or without SMG. I drive for a passion and fun. Yes SMG is more LOGICAL as it is much faster then a human but this is not a race car its a car about FUN! If i were racing and there was money on the line of course I would pick SMG but I didn't buy this car to compete in anything or race it seriously. I have cheap easy fast cars for that. I drive this car every day and I just got annoyed at how the SMG lagged just like the FBW. I like to FEEL connected to the car which is a personal preference obviously but because I am a REAL driver. Im glad you enjoy your SMG and it is a cool application for racing but again for a daily driven non race car I just don't care for it.
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post #24 of 129 Old 24th November 2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Turboman916 View Post
I am no old foggie at the age of 26. Like I said before I am sure I could outdrive 99% of you with or without SMG. I drive for a passion and fun. Yes SMG is more LOGICAL as it is much faster then a human but this is not a race car its a car about FUN! If i were racing and there was money on the line of course I would pick SMG but I didn't buy this car to compete in anything or race it seriously. I have cheap easy fast cars for that. .
I will agree, a 6spd is definitally more fun, and I'm not sure anything will replace that feeling, however, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche and the like all have to market what the majority of people want, as well as wanting to out-manuver their competitors, That is why SMG transmissions will eventually completly replace Manuals. I think it's pretty nice they even responded to consumer demand by releasing a 6SPD M5 at all. you also have to consider the fact that in europe, people acutally buy an m5 to go race it on the weekends, the American mentality of buying a super car to go daily drive it @ 60mph all day to look cool and get 20mpg just does not exist over there. As much a cliche it is to repete, even their public roads require much more attention and present many more opportunities to have fun on than in the US. In the US, you're lucky if you don't fall asleep :/
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I drive this car every day and I just got annoyed at how the SMG lagged just like the FBW. I like to FEEL connected to the car which is a personal preference obviously but because I am a REAL driver. Im glad you enjoy your SMG and it is a cool application for racing but again for a daily driven non race car I just don't care for it
I've driven ~ a dozen DBW cars, and have never experienced this 'lag', infact, even the 08 Crown victoria I drove manages to open the throttle plate instantly. I can't imagine an E60 m5 would have it either. Are you sure you're not confusing 'lag' for a stock V10 with a low amount of low-end torque when compared to your 'cheap easy fast cars' that have more throttle response? And no, this is not my opinion.. I've physically confirmed this with video evidence, as have others.

Last edited by conjyazoo; 24th November 2010 at 05:16 PM.
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post #25 of 129 Old 24th November 2010, 07:37 PM
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^^^ you are exactly right that US drivers just use the car as a daily commuter (~60mph every day)... myself included. A lot of people mention that the 6 speed will overheat under 15-20 mins of hard driving. This only makes sense if you have the M5 as a dedicated weekend/track car. If you are going to drive it to work and back, overheating is not a valid argument. hell, i'd be lucky if i can get 1 minute of continuous "hard" driving a day in traffic. I would argue against the 6 speed being more fun tho. SMG was more enjoyable to me, but i ended up with a 6speed because of reliability reasons. It's pretty obvious, there's less stuff to break.

it's fast enough(bad gearing, slower shifting) for my purposes and i won't ever get a chance to overheat it. I drive it everyday and don't have another car so i can't afford to deal with red/yellow cogs of *****.

i woudn't bother swapping the SMG, maintenance is part of the cost of performance.

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post #26 of 129 Old 24th November 2010, 08:54 PM
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First, Sephiroth FTW. I'm assuming you've watched Advent children by now?
Quote:
If you are going to drive it to work and back, overheating is not a valid argument. hell, i'd be lucky if i can get 1 minute of continuous "hard" driving a day in traffic. I would argue against the 6 speed being more fun tho. SMG was more enjoyable to me, but i ended up with a 6speed because of reliability reasons. It's pretty obvious, there's less stuff to break.
I haven't had the opportunity to sit in a SMG E60 yet, still just a lurker looking for a good deal, so I can't comment on whether it's more enjoyable for me. What I can comment on is that I can't imagine not missing a stick shift and a clutch pedal.

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i woudn't bother swapping the SMG, maintenance is part of the cost of performance.
this is more often true than I'd like haha.

Last edited by conjyazoo; 24th November 2010 at 08:54 PM.
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post #27 of 129 Old 24th November 2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by conjyazoo View Post
First, Sephiroth FTW. I'm assuming you've watched Advent children by now?

I haven't had the opportunity to sit in a SMG E60 yet, still just a lurker looking for a good deal, so I can't comment on whether it's more enjoyable for me. What I can comment on is that I can't imagine not missing a stick shift and a clutch pedal.


this is more often true than I'd like haha.
haha yeah, i saw advent children awhile back.

all i have to say for SMG is instant throttle blip/perfectly rev matched down shifts... it's a beautiful thing.

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post #28 of 129 Old 25th November 2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conjyazoo View Post
I will agree, a 6spd is definitally more fun, and I'm not sure anything will replace that feeling, however, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche and the like all have to market what the majority of people want, as well as wanting to out-manuver their competitors, That is why SMG transmissions will eventually completly replace Manuals. I think it's pretty nice they even responded to consumer demand by releasing a 6SPD M5 at all. you also have to consider the fact that in europe, people acutally buy an m5 to go race it on the weekends, the American mentality of buying a super car to go daily drive it @ 60mph all day to look cool and get 20mpg just does not exist over there. As much a cliche it is to repete, even their public roads require much more attention and present many more opportunities to have fun on than in the US. In the US, you're lucky if you don't fall asleep :/

I've driven ~ a dozen DBW cars, and have never experienced this 'lag', infact, even the 08 Crown victoria I drove manages to open the throttle plate instantly. I can't imagine an E60 m5 would have it either. Are you sure you're not confusing 'lag' for a stock V10 with a low amount of low-end torque when compared to your 'cheap easy fast cars' that have more throttle response? And no, this is not my opinion.. I've physically confirmed this with video evidence, as have others.
I hear you on demand but I just prefer a manual, I wish maybe there was a way to have both and you could switch between like you can in M mode.

The lag I am talking about is when your not in sport mode. I have an 06 M3 and I get sick to my stomach if I drive or anyone else drives it without being in sport mode. Its almost like a sea sickness boat feeling. I like the car to be jerky and instant not slow and smooth.
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post #29 of 129 Old 15th February 2011, 04:23 AM
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The manual trans in the E39 has been know to last well passed a quarter million miles w/o any issues. I'm willing to bet in 10 years the e60 M5's with manual trans will be more desirable than the smg counterparts.

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post #30 of 129 Old 15th February 2011, 07:25 AM
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As these cars get older, I expect the independents and aftermarket will have sorted out a lot of the repair headaches. This will be fueled by budget conscious owners who will push the independents and aftermarket companies to find innovative repairs to keep these things on the road at relatively modest cost compared to dealer standards. Things that would have been major drama and trauma at the dealer will not be such big deals. I also expect that will probably be a fair number of M5/M6 SMGs trannies laying around at wrecking yards, and doing searches on car-part.com will turn up M5/M6 SMG trannies for $2500-3000 from reputable yards. Probably already plenty trannies and engines around from wrecked cars, and all the cars under warranty get shiny new ones at the dealer. So, do the wrecking yards think they're investing in the future by hanging on to these parts? No, they want to move them, the sooner, the better. So what if a new trans is very expensive at the dealer? Doesn't matter. The used parts are there, and either the yards get competitive to move the stuff, or they'll hang on to it longer and the prices will probably be driven down further as people are willing to pay less to keep the cars on the road. The internet is only making this better for consumers. I remember the E34 M5 was ooh ahh drama. Then The E39 was. I expect the E60 will be. Still more crap to go wrong, but nobody will be paying retail price because they blew up their engine or gearbox etc. If I had an E34 M5 again I sure wouldn't be afraid of the engine blowing, I might pick up a clean spare for a few grand just in case. Or not. Plenty of them around. Oh, and somebody said something about a manual trans in a big car. I certainly don't share that view. I'm enough of a fan of manuals to have a 6-speed manual swapped into my E38 740iL (long gone now). Whole shebang was like 8 grand, something like 5 grand was labor. The tranny? I bought it from a wrecker for $1500 shipped with a bunch of ancillary stuff. That was around 7 or 8 years ago. I'll bet I could play that game for cheaper today. But as much as I love manuals, to me, the SMG is just a manual with a robot assistant. At least my robot buddy can match revs every time and won't moneyshift. Dave

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