Well not wanting to add fuel to the fire here. I fully agree 1bimmerguy is clearly out of line and clearly some how connected to the dealer. I also find it VERY strange someone would go driving around the streets looking for skid marks. I also don;t beleive this much time after the accident the skid marks would still be there anyway!
However, it does have to be said TJ it wouldn't hurt to post images of the skid marks etc. Respect your wish to keep the dealers name out of this where possible (even though we all know who the scumbag is now anyway) but don't see how showing these photos could harm your case. I think it would help if anything.
All you can really tell from the photos is that the body panels have been removed to determine exactly what damage there is. Under the sheet metal that's what your car looks like.
You forgot the picture of the wheelarch. The shock doesn't break from normal driving or hitting the curb at speeds that the OP pointed out where the limit in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bimmerguy
The OP is a U.S. Marine Officer and pilot. To post as he did in his first post on an M5 enthusiast board and not expect an enormous reaction would indicate more naivete than I would accuse him of.
What does it matter, where the OP works or what the OP is ? That does not in any way justify the behaviour of the dealership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bimmerguy
tjav8b, I'm still willing to take your 10 digit grid.
At this time, it's days since the accident happened. While you might find some traces still, why don't you speak to the GM and get the location from him ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by konst
what damage exactly would that be, the only thing i can see on the pictures supplied is a bent suspension strut?
Bend ? It's broken straight over. That doesn't happen at breaking from 30 mph.
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OP is a U.S. Marine Officer and pilot. To post as he did in his first post on an M5 enthusiast board and not expect an enormous reaction would indicate more naivete than I would accuse him of.
Quote:
If it happened to me I doubt I would have handled it the way the OP did. If I got the treatment the OP says he got, I would not have left the dealership until I had a face to face meeting with at least the GM of the entire operation, or in this case with a locally owned dealership, a meeting with the Owner.
1bimmerguy
So i'm a US Marine Officer as well. Does that make me naive? That comment isn't even relevant. no offense. In my opinion, that just shows his integrity as military officers are supposed to be. He came to this forum to vent, get feedback, and support. He obviously got it. Probably way more than he anticipated. Lets not kid ourselves, I'm sure you would have posted something similar on the forum you frequent if this has happened to you. You mention that you've posted about this particular dealer (good or bad) on your usual forum.
In regards to how you would act if this happened to you, your comment is easier said than done. The GM won't even talk to the OP starting off. May or may not have something to do w/ this forum. But i highly doubt they would let you stay and demand to see the GM....after a while they might just call the cops to remove you from the premises. Who knows.
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Last edited by mdyaman; 4th September 2010 at 14:40.
1bimmerguy,
I can appreciate you trying to calm things a bit, but the OP has pictures of the accident site and an admission by the dealership that they wrecked the car. What is it that you are contesting here, his presentation of his collected info? The car has clearly been nailed against a curb. You have in the other thread pointed out how the picture with the car without the hood and fenders doesn't prove anything. You are right, but the picture with the folded over strut pretty much speaks volumes about the potential damage. They have obviously removed those panels to carefully measure everything to check for deformation. As an Mechanical Engineer and (former) BMW tech, I can clearly see the possible issues that have resulted from the crash. The strut assembly (everything connected to that) is obviously toast. The control arms on that side are definitely going to be shot, too. All that force would be fed to the subframe, which could have easily deformed from the impact or could have cracked requiring replacement (aluminum subframes do not take well to impact loads and take many hours labor to replace.) The way the chassis is braced could have caused some of this impact to be transferred to the other shock tower knocking it out of alignment as well. To fold the strut over like that it would have to have struck a curb sideways pretty hard. Pretty likely that if you hit a curb sideways that you could have hit the rear wheel against the curb as well. So we are up to two wheels, two sets of control arms (front and rear) one or two subframes, and some frame straightening. That is getting up there in price for sure. A quick perusal of realoem with all these parts comes to over $10k in front and rear suspension parts and wheels alone (worst case scenario, which is what an estimate is.) Keep in mind that the estimate is being made by another BMW dealership, not some hack shop or some other place trying to make a quick buck.
I don't think your potentially snide "notice he hasn't posted pictures of what it looked like before" is uncalled for. Even if the hood was scratched and the fenders were sanded to bare metal before the OP brought it in for an oil change, it does not change the damage done from smacking a curb and is a flimsy attack on the OP.
I am certain that the OP's bringing a lawyer with him for the first meeting has fostered some immediate CYA attitude from the dealer, but it was the prudent thing to do considering the extent of the damage and the value of the vehicle.
Bingo. Nice post mooseheadm5. Ignore the ridiculous comment up above -- perhaps someone has to make it through statics, dynamics, strength of materials, failure analysis and machine design classes to even begin to have a truly educated opinion of the forces involved in addition to the how such forces are dissipated (through permanent deformation) in the structure of the car (subframes and then unibody). Good job.
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The OP is a U.S. Marine Officer and pilot. To post as he did in his first post on an M5 enthusiast board and not expect an enormous reaction would indicate more naivete than I would accuse him of.
Believe that it is exceptionally poor taste to use someone's military service as a discussion point an argument impugning their integrity. This is simply not tolerable behavior, and indicates the lengths the dealer will go to to avoid making good here. For those of you serving or who have served, feel free to post this on your service forums.
Also, we understand that 1bimmerguy's audience is not the members of this forum. So for those of you just joining us, he is hoping to discredit the OP for the large number of viewers now following the thread - to insert just enough doubt to make the dealer seem unfairly targeted. This should be noted. For those of you now following the thread:
1) He is not a contributing member of this community
2) He has demonstrated a clear affiliation with the dealership
3) He has only sought to discredit rather than offer any valuable content
4) The OP is under exactly 0 - ZERO requirement to respond to him with any information since he may well be an associated lawyer or PR firm
Keep going, for dealer to pull this stunt, they must really be feeling it.
1bimmerguy,
I can appreciate you trying to calm things a bit, but the OP has pictures of the accident site and an admission by the dealership that they wrecked the car. What is it that you are contesting here, his presentation of his collected info?
The car has clearly been nailed against a curb. You have in the other thread pointed out how the picture with the car without the hood and fenders doesn't prove anything. You are right, but the picture with the folded over strut pretty much speaks volumes about the potential damage. They have obviously removed those panels to carefully measure everything to check for deformation.
As an Mechanical Engineer and (former) BMW tech, I can clearly see the possible issues that have resulted from the crash. The strut assembly (everything connected to that) is obviously toast. The control arms on that side are definitely going to be shot, too. All that force would be fed to the subframe, which could have easily deformed from the impact or could have cracked requiring replacement (aluminum subframes do not take well to impact loads and take many hours labor to replace.) The way the chassis is braced could have caused some of this impact to be transferred to the other shock tower knocking it out of alignment as well. To fold the strut over like that it would have to have struck a curb sideways pretty hard. Pretty likely that if you hit a curb sideways that you could have hit the rear wheel against the curb as well.
So we are up to two wheels, two sets of control arms (front and rear) one or two subframes, and some frame straightening. That is getting up there in price for sure. A quick perusal of realoem with all these parts comes to over $10k in front and rear suspension parts and wheels alone (worst case scenario, which is what an estimate is.) Keep in mind that the estimate is being made by another BMW dealership, not some hack shop or some other place trying to make a quick buck.
I don't think your potentially snide "notice he hasn't posted pictures of what it looked like before" is uncalled for. Even if the hood was scratched and the fenders were sanded to bare metal before the OP brought it in for an oil change, it does not change the damage done from smacking a curb and is a flimsy attack on the OP.
I am certain that the OP's bringing a lawyer with him for the first meeting has fostered some immediate CYA attitude from the dealer, but it was the prudent thing to do considering the extent of the damage and the value of the vehicle.
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Good job.
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