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Old 30th October 2009, 12:10   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodaddy View Post
So the consumer CTS-V was 3:14. That says it all.
That and Bob lost the challange as he was beaten by an M3
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Old 30th October 2009, 12:29   #62
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Hehe true

BMW biased facts from the challenge:
1. Bub Lutz was beaten by a consumer in an M3
2. Both M3 and M5 won the consumer vs consumer race against the CTS-V

But the fact is that with the same driver and same effort the CTS-V would be faster then the M5 and the M3 which is a great achivement by GM, it is a great car. Difference is very small though so even a small diff in driver skill could turn the outcome around. But deciding on the "best" car overall for me is more then just the quickest time at a track (even though it is important), and in those areas the BMW's makes up for the small gap in performance with a big margin over the Caddie.

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That and Bob lost the challange as he was beaten by an M3
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Old 30th October 2009, 19:41   #63
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Here is it guys & BMW Blog. Yes, the CTS-V lost, but the M3 could have been first if there was a professional driver involved . Congrats to the young M3 driver! BMW Power!

And here goes a LMFAO to Bob Lutz from his own blog.

And the excuse for losing to an M3 driven by an amateur: "Here are the results from the track. There were no winners or losers today – the point was to have fun with great cars because that’s what they’re all about, and to show that GM vehicles can compete with the best in the world, in every class. It was a great day for the CTS-V, and an exceptionally fun day for me. I’ll have to issue another challenge so I can do this again sometime soon, although I wish I had started doing these when I was younger!"

Last edited by FTB; 30th October 2009 at 19:44.
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Old 30th October 2009, 23:45   #64
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I can't believe that there isn't more press about how the CTS-V lost in the amateur division, which is what matters given that there were only professional drivers driving CTS-V's, right?
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Old 31st October 2009, 01:59   #65
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Wow, GM managed to build a new car that can barely beat the e60 M5 that has been around for almost 7 years. Way to go GM!!

For the M3:

M3 = $54,850, 4.0L V8 414HP

CTS-V =$62,020, 6.2l V8 556HP

Humm........CTS-V Fail!
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Last edited by Cosmos; 31st October 2009 at 02:02.
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Old 31st October 2009, 04:04   #66
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I am the driver of the m5. Some background Ive been to porsche driving school and the free M school. This was my first time at Monticello and it was wet and light rain on the track in the morning.
Keep in mind, this is my car so if i crash or go off track and hit the tires I LOSE.
For this event, I changed my oil, replaced brake fluid with high temp fluid, and NEW REAR TIRES. Btw ps2 are $440 each This was all out of pocket (alot) - GM didnt offer or supply anything.
My friend Kamil (http://www.carguydad.com) and I arrived around 8:15 to our surprise-full camera crews, GM press people, and alot more than just 10-20 cars for a friendly race. We checked in and signed our life/insurance waivers and had breakfast. Around 9 they invited the drivers (regular guys and journalists) to ride in a cts-v with a driver to tour the track. I think it was 2-3 laps then back to pits where we went into our cars. They gave us 5-6 laps uninstructed on our own and then an instructor rode with us for another 2-3 laps. The track was wet and light rain and mist was still present. Car felt good but after 2 1/2 hard laps the brakes werent biting as hard--pedal feel was great and grip was good but need to slow down a little bit more. I tried to push as much as I could-but in the back of my mind I had to "save" something for later and not crash or run off since the grass was very wet (flip over) and still needed to drive her home.
We broke for a press event and then lunch. Next some group shots and more press p/r stuff.
Now for the challenge -groups of 3-4 cars at a time 45 secs inbetween. Each group had 1 journalist or privateer and 2-3 GM reps/pro drivers. So it was somewhat stacked against us with the pros being present. This was GM's party and they werent going to lose. Bob Lutz said at lunch if he didnt post the fast time, he was sure someone here would make sure the caddy comes out on top. LOL
So my turn: 1 lap to warm up and 3 timed laps and then 1 cool down.
The track was drier than the morning but there were still wet spots and puddles in places. I tried to follow the line and hit the apexes right but obviously its easier to say than do. My speeds were decent about 120-125 on front straight and 130-140+ on back. I think I hit rev limiter in 4th on the back One could go faster but about 1/3 of the way on the back they had a chicane setup (again for safety) that one needed to slow down to 25-30mph before getting on it at full throttle thru 2nd 3rd and 4th before hitting the brakes to about 60-70 on a hard right turn uphill and another chicane.
Speed TV had a helicopter flying over and filming everyone but its rotor wash had blown some corner/braking cones on to the track in 2 different spots making you adjust your line to avoid them.
So I had a great time and wish I could have spent more time practicing and taking more laps to achieve a better time.
The caddy sounded great and is a fast car. It looks good and is cheaper than a bmw m5. I hope I can post some clips or video of full speed/throttle shifts of a big supercharged v8 because it was mean.
That being said -numerous people came upto me and stated that when I came down the front stretch from about 60ish to about 124mph from 2nd to 3rd gear at full throttle-the sound was just awesome!!! Different from the rawness of the american v8 but the full wail of a v-10 at redline was just superb!!!!
I was disappointed after the event that we werent given a chance to drive the cts-v on the track-I guess if one of us pulled a fast lap in the caddy that beat a gm driver then that would have been egg on their face.
The kid in the m3 was very fast and for being 21 was a good driver. The other cars werent close but again its peoples OWN vehicles whose insurance policies probably wouldnt appreciate a claim on the track.
Ill remember more but feel free to ask any questions.
Mike
ps This will air on Speed on Dec 5th--according to nytimes or another post I read
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Last edited by grizzy; 31st October 2009 at 04:10. Reason: ps
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Old 31st October 2009, 04:26   #67
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grizzy, thanks for chiming in! Next challenge we will throw everything m5board have against this ol' man Thanks for aprticipatign and it seemed like alot of fun!
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Old 31st October 2009, 04:26   #68
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grizzy, front page material by the way
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Old 31st October 2009, 09:28   #69
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This reminds me of those scams where someone will e-mail you what will happen in the stock market. What they really do is send say 10 million e-mails to group a that say the market is going down and 10 million to group b saying it will go up. Lets say it goes down, then they only deal with group b, and send out 5 million that it will go up and 5 million more to the other half saying it will go down, and repeat a few times. With this method you can be right each. You can do this for 2 weeks (10 days) and you will have about 20,000 people who think you predicted the market for the last 10 days.

Anyways like someone said, GM wouldn't publish if they lost. So all they need to do is try enough of these events, different tracks, drivers, conditions, and eventually they will be able to say that the Caddy won. Not sure about the nuburgring time on the Caddy either. Can anyone verify that the M5 time is performed with the limiter still enabled? Does the Caddy have the same 155mph limiter? The M5 has a higher top speed and is quicker in the triple digits than the cts-v.
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Old 31st October 2009, 11:43   #70
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It doesnt make sense that there is almost half a min difference between the pros and the fastest customer car 3:14. And with Bob saying they are sure they will win cuz make me specualte that those CTS-V's arent stock.

The XJ-220 comes to mind when it ran 218 mp/h back in the mid 90's. It was slightly tuned with no cats on for that run
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