When did this change??? I had a 2001 Jaguar XJR and it was a piece of crap. The interior was nice and felt solid, but I had the car for 1 year and got to drive it 3 months out of the year...no joke! Jaguar finally bought it back from me because I had a rental longer than the actual car I bought. I left Jaguar and bought another car. I do like the looks of the Jaguar's just wish they were more dependable...and faster.
Sorry to hear about your experiences I don't know specifically when the XJR plant underwent renovation / updates. Ford bought them in the early 1990's and over the course of about 10 years, built them into one of the highest quality brands available. They've consistently ranked in the top 5 of JD Powers for quite some time now.
Were there multiple issues with your car, or was the dealership just unable to diagnose / fix? In other words, did you use the Lemon Law, or did they buy it back under "goodwill"?
When did this change??? I had a 2001 Jaguar XJR and it was a piece of crap. The interior was nice and felt solid, but I had the car for 1 year and got to drive it 3 months out of the year...no joke! Jaguar finally bought it back from me because I had a rental longer than the actual car I bought. I left Jaguar and bought another car. I do like the looks of the Jaguar's just wish they were more dependable...and faster.
Maybe you just got a lemon...???....My 08 E92 M3 was in the shop for a solid MONTH!!...why??...because a check engine light kept coming on repeatedly and they could not diagnose the issue....
a PUMA case was opened the whole nine yards.....dont you think it would be wrong of me to say BMW build quality sucks for the M3???....I got a Monday Mornng car....everyone was hung over from the Hofbrau Party!...lol
S
Not true - the 3 YIS ratings correlate very closer with overall long term reliability. And trust me, I looked at them before deciding which model year M5 I wanted.
Remember, we are talking assembly complexity, not component complexity. While I'll agree that the technology in a Caddy is more advanced than in a Chevy, they both go through roughly the same number of steps during assembly. So, if we work off the assumption that parts don't fail all that often (I'll ask you to take my word on that) then the variable is assembly complexity. And in this regard, the Caddy's are considerably simpler than the Chevy since they have less options. Think of it this way - both vehicles will go through the same number of steps (let's call it 100). On each of those steps, the assembly tech has to put the right part in place and secure it the right way. Because of the breadth of the typical Chevy lineup (ranging from strippers to something close to the Caddy), each step might have 5 or more different assembly options (seats, for example, might have full leather, partial leather, cloth, buckets, bench, + color options), while the Caddy has considerably less options, so each station might only have 1-2 choices (they are all leather buckets). Which one should be easier to assembly correctly? The Caddy. And thus the luxury brands tend to rank higher on the quality surveys...
Yes, but the how is the important part. If you look at a Toyota or Honda brochure you'll see the number of "buildable combinations" (excluding color) will number in the 100's for any given vehicle line. On American cars, this number is typically measured in the tens of thousands (or higher). Unfortunately, driving this number down requires considerable advance planning and is a significant gamble that the Americans have not yet figured out how to do well.
I'm not sure what you mean by demographics - I assume you mean "pickiness in reporting issues"?
You are thinking of Jag from the 80's when they were still all hand assembled. Ford dumped billions (with a B) into them to automate their assembly, which is now world class. You may not like it, but Jaguar has been one of the highest quality manufacturers for quite some time. Complain about their design / style / etc, but manufacturing quality doesn't fit any more...
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I think we understand each other... We both have decent reasons to like or dislike the ratings.
What I mean by demographics is that there is a certain percentage of group a, b and c that buys brand a, brand b, brand c. In this simple scenario group a might be a bunch of racers who buy brand c. So 90% of those who drive brand c are say group a. brand c could be equally well made as the others but will have more problems per car. It is a somewhat extreme example simply to illustrate what goes on in a more subtle fashion. So to list a few driving style, expectations, ones inclination to complain, and perhaps geographical location and climate.
I see land rover is at the bottom, this makes a lot of sense, I am sure a relatively large percentage of land rovers are subject to off-roading. This places lots of stess on nearly everything, the body twists and shakes, which can loosen interior parts. Sand, dirt and dust gets into moving parts causing premature wear, fording a river probably increases the chances of moisture building up near electrical components.
Acura, Audi, Caddy, and Lexus are all above their parent companies. It costs more money to buy these cars, on average I am sure most are in their 30s, more mature, more experience drivers. I see lots of old ladies driving Caddys, and I know old ladies tend to drive very little, and very slow, they take it easy on the bumps, and tend to only drive in perfect weather.
I think we understand each other... We both have decent reasons to like or dislike the ratings.
What I mean by demographics is that there is a certain percentage of group a, b and c that buys brand a, brand b, brand c. In this simple scenario group a might be a bunch of racers who buy brand c. So 90% of those who drive brand c are say group a. brand c could be equally well made as the others but will have more problems per car. It is a somewhat extreme example simply to illustrate what goes on in a more subtle fashion. So to list a few driving style, expectations, ones inclination to complain, and perhaps geographical location and climate.
I see land rover is at the bottom, this makes a lot of sense, I am sure a relatively large percentage of land rovers are subject to off-roading. This places lots of stess on nearly everything, the body twists and shakes, which can loosen interior parts. Sand, dirt and dust gets into moving parts causing premature wear, fording a river probably increases the chances of moisture building up near electrical components.
Acura, Audi, Caddy, and Lexus are all above their parent companies. It costs more money to buy these cars, on average I am sure most are in their 30s, more mature, more experience drivers. I see lots of old ladies driving Caddys, and I know old ladies tend to drive very little, and very slow, they take it easy on the bumps, and tend to only drive in perfect weather.
Generally speaking, yes, those biases are likely built into the results. Nevertheless, I do not believe that they invalidate the results; they more provide a caution that one has to take into account when considering what the results tell you.
And no, Land Rovers are not at the bottom solely because they are driven harder
Generally speaking, yes, those biases are likely built into the results. Nevertheless, I do not believe that they invalidate the results; they more provide a caution that one has to take into account when considering what the results tell you.
And no, Land Rovers are not at the bottom solely because they are driven harder
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I think that is fair enough... I did not mean to imply that Land Rover is at the bottom only for that reason. What the list does tell me is that if I bought a Lexus I would probably be less likely to have a problem than with a BMW, I think the demographics are similar.
I would probably not want a car below average, but I wouldn't base much of my decision on reliability after that except for maybe the Lexus. According to JD Power, a BMW has almost 40% more problems than a Lexus, although I am not sure if the 7 series is responsible for most of it. I don't care if the 335 has 40% more problems than an IS350, the 335 makes up for it and then some with the free service and maintenance, and the driving experience is superior, I like to know exactly what is going on with my car and the road.
However this is just my value system and how much I care about reliability at a certain point. I don't know how all cars feel when it is slippery but has anyone noticed that in a BMW the steering wheel gets noticeably easier to turn, and almost feels loose while on say ice? The steering is confidence inspiring, but not does not inspire over confidence which is key.
And no, Land Rovers are not at the bottom solely because they are driven harder
I've driven off-road in Colorado and Washington - never saw a Land Rover product. Did see them shiny and new on the streets of Denver with roof snorkels though! Laughed so hard seeing $65k Ranger Rovers with roof snorkels...
I work at a Honda dealership, and we try not to take any Land Rover product on trade unless we absolutely have too; to make a deal happen. They are the worst vehicle sold in America (poor quality) and in my 6 years at this dealership we have yet to make any money on them. They sit, and sit, and sit on the lot. I make it extremely clear to customers that we sell them "as-is, no warranty implied" And I suggest they buy a warranty as they'll use it - otherwise I tell them to become good friends with a Land Rover mechanic.
It's quite a testimony that the most expensive aftermarket warranties are for one product line: Land Rover. If you have someone you really dislike - encourage them to buy a Land Rover product!
Finally, JD Powers is not a joke, no matter what we enthusiasts think, the manufacturers and public take them quite seriously. As enthusiasts, we are a tiny, tiny minority. For example, despite how important we view ourselves, we aren't even BMW's target market. If we were, BMW's would have dipsticks.
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'90 M3 | '90 Talon AWD TSi | '99 Tahoe LS | '03 M5 | '10 Insight EX
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I don't know specifically when the XJR plant underwent renovation / updates. Ford bought them in the early 1990's and over the course of about 10 years, built them into one of the highest quality brands available. They've consistently ranked in the top 5 of JD Powers for quite some time now.
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