Excellent, I was going to post exactly the same info/finding and experiences from a very similar perspective
This has saved me a lot of typing time lol!
I have had a lot of 1000cc+ bikes including zx10R's and having race a few M5 and M6's I can say, yes they tried, yes they were impressive and yes they got spanked! One of my lightly tuned (Power comander, Tre deresistict and Akraprovic system) would pull an indicated 216 mph which was 208 on the sat nav!
Sorry guys I sit both sides of the fence here owning both bikes and a lightly tuned M5 are as was point out in different galaxies.
A well riden new 750 like a gsxr will leave you specially if deristricted and a very well riden hypersport 600 will be there all the way to 170 mph, look at the price difference of these machines and a say second hand 'cheap' M5
My last point is a well set up well riden 600+ bike will give M5 or m6 a clean pair of heals in the twisties too. I will take on the point though most bikes aren't well riden
Those that have raced and won against a bike were just lucky
Regards
Jay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalc01l
Sorry Guys, but I have a ton of experience on Bikes, specifically 1000cc Sportbikes and there's not a stock Car on the planet that can touch a Literbike unless the rider doesn't know what he's doing. A STOCK 2008 Kawasaki ZX-10R making 164 RWHP can go fron 0-180 mph in 17 seconds.... During a Magazine test, they put a Twin Turbo'd 1100 HP Ford GT up against all the top HyperBikes... ZX-10R as I said ran 0-180 mph in 17 seconds... the 1100 hp Ford GT took 22 seconds to get there. More importantly, the ZX-10R was comprehensively faster from 100 mph to 180 mph (in the range of 3-4 seconds faster, which at those speeds is a considerable distance).
In terms of top speed, all Japanes LiterBikes are suppopsed to be limited (by Gentleman's agreement) to 300 Km/h, or 186 mph these days, but I can tell you from my own 2006 ZX-10R that even though the speedo stops at 186 mph, the rev counter keeps climbing. A STOCK LiterBike is good for somewhere north of 190 mph in perfect conditions if the rider knows how to tuck in and has an Aero hump on his leathers. If the Bike has had its speed limiter removed or bypassed by something like an Ivan's TRE, you COULD be looking at a Bike that can top 200 mph... There are Hayabusas and Kawasaki ZX-12R's/ZX-14's/ZX-10R's that can top 220 mph with heavy mods.... A few have gone 235 mph +
600cc class Bikes are a different story. A really well ridden 600cc class Bike will do a 1/4 mile in 10.3 - 10.5 seconds at 135 mph+, which is Bugatti Veyron territory, BUT..... They top out at 165-170 mph at best, so an M5 or M6 that's delimited will KILL it above 150 mph. I now have a Triumph Daytona 675 and have run against a friend's Dodge Viper Hennessey Venom 650.... I have him comprehensively spanked from a standing start until over 150 mph. From a roll-on, I have to be in the perfect gear and in the perfect part of my rev range in order to pull on him in second through 6th (I also always do clutchless upshifts which keeps the revs up and saves a couple of tenths per shift). If I am even slightly off, he wins from almost every speed and from every gear.
Bottom line, you can beat a 600cc SportBike if you are even a semi-decent driver and the Bike rider is average. A literBike that's well ridden (and I would estimate that maybe 2%, yes TWO percent are ridden well - SOOOO many idiot Squids that have no clue as to how to ride, shift or get through a corner).... You're screwed unless you are talking speeds above 180 mph and by that point, the Bike will have taken a quarter mile or more out of you if you started from a standing start or from a second gear roll-on..
In the twisties, a well ridden SportBike (600cc class or 1000cc) will kill most Stock Cars on the right roads, HOWEVER.... on really tight stuff a Car has an advantage, also if the road surface is in bad shape. Again, I have a ton of Car racing experience on tracks like Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunderhill Raceway, Willows Springs etc as well as Shifter Kart and Motorcycle racing; I have been a Driving instructor with local race series like NASA, GreenFlag Racing and Porsche Club of America and have no particular Axe to grind on behalf of either Cars or Bikes... I love them both. In general, there are VERY few Motorcycle riders that have even the slightest clue as to how to ride these modern Bikes at anywhere close to their potential and it takes serious skill, judgment and balls to ride a Motorcycle at the limits on public roads (not to mention the danger of being arrested and sent to Jail ) as the consequences of a screw-up are usually fatal, whereas in a Car there is WAAAAAAY more latitude to make a mistake.
If you ever run into a really good rider on a well set-up modern LiterBike, you are absolute toast, either in a straight line or in the twisties. I can get my lowly little Triumph Daytona 675 with its 114 RWHP (slightly modified) through my local twisties way, way, way faster than I ever could in my Corvette Z06 with Hoosiers and a complete track suspension setup, or in my 550 RWHP Porsche 944 Turbo which was even more track oriented.
I can agree you on this one, Koenigseggs time is just bogus and FAR from real! They state a 0-200 km/h in 9 seconds, but at the same time has a quarter mile time at 9.1/146...funny actually
But, as for cars beeing faster then bikes...it all depends on how much hp the car has. We all know that a stock car wonīt be able against a 2009 1000 cc bike...but why be so damn stubborn and always have this "stock vs stock"?
Itīs like me going up to a guy with a Fiat 500 and say: Hey, I can beat you with my M5...
DOīH...master of the obvious!
I am always out for fun, if the car is tuned or not, anything beeing able to keep up with me is fun but bikepeople, they take it personally...at least most of them.
I sold my 2006 ZX-10R and bought the Triumph 675 Daytona, because the 675 is way better in the types of twisties I ride on in the hills around the San Francisco Bay Area. The only thing I miss about the ZX-10R is that insane sledgehammer engine.. Having said that, I miss that feeling of having the biggest gun out there. There's something about knowing you have enough motor to destroy almost anything you may run up against in a straight line. Around here, most people set their Cars up for handling, not absolute maximum power. I think the most powerful Car I have ever come up against in the SF Bay area was a guy with a Toyota Supra Turbo that claimed he had 900 HP... Mostly, it's 997 TT's, Ferrari 430's, the occasional Porsche Carrera GT... We very seldom see the real high HP cars here. And I'm all about the turns myself, that's where I get my thrills.
Good thread by the way, with some well reasoned replies from some obviously intelligent people. This kind of discussion on other forums usually degenerates into childishness and name calling by this point.
I sold my 2006 ZX-10R and bought the Triumph 675 Daytona, because the 675 is way better in the types of twisties I ride on in the hills around the San Francisco Bay Area. The only thing I miss about the ZX-10R is that insane sledgehammer engine.. Having said that, I miss that feeling of having the biggest gun out there. There's something about knowing you have enough motor to destroy almost anything you may run up against in a straight line. Around here, most people set their Cars up for handling, not absolute maximum power. I think the most powerful Car I have ever come up against in the SF Bay area was a guy with a Toyota Supra Turbo that claimed he had 900 HP... Mostly, it's 997 TT's, Ferrari 430's, the occasional Porsche Carrera GT... We very seldom see the real high HP cars here. And I'm all about the turns myself, that's where I get my thrills.
Good thread by the way, with some well reasoned replies from some obviously intelligent people. This kind of discussion on other forums usually degenerates into childishness and name calling by this point.
I understand what you are saying about having a car that can handle well. M5 is a car that handles very well, but not "GT3 well" and thatīs why I am considering a 997 GT3 after the M and maybe I can chase bikes in the bends
__________________
You know, boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like a woman. You just have to read the manual and press the right buttons
There are a lot of good posts here, from people who clearly know their stuff! For me I'm still not convinced that a bike can beat an M5 on a motorway. OK maybe in the USA the "freeways/highways" (not sure what the difference is!) are straight and so there is no competition. BUT here in UK and most of europe there are very few straight motorway runs, they consist of a lot of sweeping curves that an M5 can take at 180mph + where a bike simply cannot. MAybe, just maybe somewhere in that 2% of perfect bikers can get around these tight sweeping straight/curves but in my experience they simply cannot or do not do it. That being said a couple of months ago I was well and truly raped by a "hayabusa", and that I was doing 190+!
YouTube - Lamborghini Gallardo vs. Ducati 999 Not the fastest car and not the fastest nike, but a good representation of bikes vs cars I think. I think MOST M5s could kick MOST bikes butts at very high speeds on the right roads, for sure european motorways. For sure there is always an exception, a modded bike, that ***** of a hayabusa that made me look like I was asleep, a Gpower M5.... Every machine has a right situation and I thnk for the most part most bikes will kick M butt in most situations!
BUT! Think on this, it might be a close thing, the bike might just beat the M5, BUT we can fit 3 whores in the car and 2 bodies in the boot and STILL come close to the bike!
There are a lot of good posts here, from people who clearly know their stuff! For me I'm still not convinced that a bike can beat an M5 on a motorway. OK maybe in the USA the "freeways/highways" (not sure what the difference is!) are straight and so there is no competition. BUT here in UK and most of europe there are very few straight motorway runs, they consist of a lot of sweeping curves that an M5 can take at 180mph + where a bike simply cannot. MAybe, just maybe somewhere in that 2% of perfect bikers can get around these tight sweeping straight/curves but in my experience they simply cannot or do not do it. That being said a couple of months ago I was well and truly raped by a "hayabusa", and that I was doing 190+!
YouTube - Lamborghini Gallardo vs. Ducati 999 Not the fastest car and not the fastest nike, but a good representation of bikes vs cars I think. I think MOST M5s could kick MOST bikes butts at very high speeds on the right roads, for sure european motorways. For sure there is always an exception, a modded bike, that ***** of a hayabusa that made me look like I was asleep, a Gpower M5.... Every machine has a right situation and I thnk for the most part most bikes will kick M butt in most situations!
BUT! Think on this, it might be a close thing, the bike might just beat the M5, BUT we can fit 3 whores in the car and 2 bodies in the boot and STILL come close to the bike!
Again, this is a case of rider competence. There are areas of Freeways here in the USA with sweepers as well (by the way, I'm originally from Crail in Scotland) and there are certain places where a Bike can thread the needle at 180 mph and be utterly straight up and down, where a Car has to turn it's wheels to steer through the corners and has to generate actual corner loading.
To ride a Motorcycle really well takes a lot more skill, training and seat time than to drive a Car really well. Having a "moment" in a Car when you make a small mistake is one thing, but a mistake on a Motorcycle at any speed above 35 mph can instantly kill the rider and that's where the rider's skill and judgment come into play. Things that are child's play in a Car are real "nut-tighteners" on a Bike.
That's the interesting thing for me... Cars and Bikes have their strengths and weaknesses.. Bikes will always have the power to weight ratio battle won (200 hp at 400 lbs give or take, plus rider) whereas Cars have stability, grip, WAAAAAY better aerodynamics and a safety margin that Bikes just don't have. I love the challenges that both Cars and Bikes afford me, I take my Cars to the track and love to push them to their limits, but at 47 years old, I have stopped riding Motorcycles on the track, as I have had enough injuries to last me the rest of my life and don't need any more.
Last edited by Mortalc01l; 9th July 2009 at 22:24.
Mortalc01l puts it well again, I to have raced and trained others so think my skill level is ok but not in the Valentino Rossi camp.
Stormster I would put money on it the bikes would be up there with you at 180+ mph, I have done it BUT it is scarey and as was pointed out with out any safety net like you get in the M5 (ABS,ESP,front and side air bags and big crumpel zones) your spinkter is going to chew through your leathers and take a grip on the seat at those speed also they have normally proved a point (the $$$$ against $$$$$$ point!) and had some fun to boot. Us 'bikers' like to play and 98% of performance car drivers don't or can't play (a bit like the 2% of bike riders that can ride, the other 98% are just like the performance car drivers there for the show lol!).
Anyway put rain in the mix and its a totally different story.
I like both sports bikes and performance cars, lifes great to have the choice.
I'm definitely NOT buying that time... a 9.1 @ 146 is all wrong.. A 9.1 would have to have a speed in the 150 mph plus range. They Veyron has AWD and 1001 hp and can't get within a second of this supposed time. It's bogus.
Again, this is a case of rider competence. There are areas of Freeways here in the USA with sweepers as well (by the way, I'm originally from Crail in Scotland) and there are certain places where a Bike can thread the needle at 180 mph and be utterly straight up and down, where a Car has to turn it's wheels to steer through the corners and has to generate actual corner loading.
Exactly, which is why I wrote 'if this is true' - I found the time quite unbelieveable too. Aren't most highways in USA, California at least, absolutely rubbish? I was there last summer driving around in a rented Chrysler Sebring - which is the worst handling car ever to be made - and I was amazed with how bad condition the roads were in. Although I have to say those long straights in Nevada were awesome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v
I would put money on it the bikes would be up there with you at 180+ mph, I have done it BUT it is scarey and as was pointed out with out any safety net like you get in the M5 (ABS,ESP,front and side air bags and big crumpel zones) your spinkter is going to chew through your leathers and take a grip on the seat at those speed also they have normally proved a point (the $$$$ against $$$$$$ point!) and had some fun to boot.
I hate to break it to you, but if you crash at 180+ mph in either a car or on a bike you can discard those crumble zones because that will kill you.
Now I must admit I've never driven a bike, but I can imagine how fast and scary it must feel.. Hell I'm scared when going 20 mph on a regular bike. Four wheels for me please!
__________________
2005 BMW M5, it's not on order, it's here!
Sepang Bronze/Sepang Leather/Aluminium - It's in the garage!! And not so much on the road, stupid clutch!!
To clear something up that has been bothering me; my name is Gustav (hello board leader ), my dad's name is Morten. I post 99% of all posts under the MortenDK account - so call me Gustav
Thanks for the post, and looks like you know what you are talking about. Here I was a passenger in this Evo VI and the GSXR1000 was not 100% on it in the start bit then gave it all
Sorry Guys, but I have a ton of experience on Bikes, specifically 1000cc Sportbikes and there's not a stock Car on the planet that can touch a Literbike unless the rider doesn't know what he's doing. A STOCK 2008 Kawasaki ZX-10R making 164 RWHP can go fron 0-180 mph in 17 seconds.... During a Magazine test, they put a Twin Turbo'd 1100 HP Ford GT up against all the top HyperBikes... ZX-10R as I said ran 0-180 mph in 17 seconds... the 1100 hp Ford GT took 22 seconds to get there. More importantly, the ZX-10R was comprehensively faster from 100 mph to 180 mph (in the range of 3-4 seconds faster, which at those speeds is a considerable distance).
In terms of top speed, all Japanes LiterBikes are suppopsed to be limited (by Gentleman's agreement) to 300 Km/h, or 186 mph these days, but I can tell you from my own 2006 ZX-10R that even though the speedo stops at 186 mph, the rev counter keeps climbing. A STOCK LiterBike is good for somewhere north of 190 mph in perfect conditions if the rider knows how to tuck in and has an Aero hump on his leathers. If the Bike has had its speed limiter removed or bypassed by something like an Ivan's TRE, you COULD be looking at a Bike that can top 200 mph... There are Hayabusas and Kawasaki ZX-12R's/ZX-14's/ZX-10R's that can top 220 mph with heavy mods.... A few have gone 235 mph +
600cc class Bikes are a different story. A really well ridden 600cc class Bike will do a 1/4 mile in 10.3 - 10.5 seconds at 135 mph+, which is Bugatti Veyron territory, BUT..... They top out at 165-170 mph at best, so an M5 or M6 that's delimited will KILL it above 150 mph. I now have a Triumph Daytona 675 and have run against a friend's Dodge Viper Hennessey Venom 650.... I have him comprehensively spanked from a standing start until over 150 mph. From a roll-on, I have to be in the perfect gear and in the perfect part of my rev range in order to pull on him in second through 6th (I also always do clutchless upshifts which keeps the revs up and saves a couple of tenths per shift). If I am even slightly off, he wins from almost every speed and from every gear.
Bottom line, you can beat a 600cc SportBike if you are even a semi-decent driver and the Bike rider is average. A literBike that's well ridden (and I would estimate that maybe 2%, yes TWO percent are ridden well - SOOOO many idiot Squids that have no clue as to how to ride, shift or get through a corner).... You're screwed unless you are talking speeds above 180 mph and by that point, the Bike will have taken a quarter mile or more out of you if you started from a standing start or from a second gear roll-on..
In the twisties, a well ridden SportBike (600cc class or 1000cc) will kill most Stock Cars on the right roads, HOWEVER.... on really tight stuff a Car has an advantage, also if the road surface is in bad shape. Again, I have a ton of Car racing experience on tracks like Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunderhill Raceway, Willows Springs etc as well as Shifter Kart and Motorcycle racing; I have been a Driving instructor with local race series like NASA, GreenFlag Racing and Porsche Club of America and have no particular Axe to grind on behalf of either Cars or Bikes... I love them both. In general, there are VERY few Motorcycle riders that have even the slightest clue as to how to ride these modern Bikes at anywhere close to their potential and it takes serious skill, judgment and balls to ride a Motorcycle at the limits on public roads (not to mention the danger of being arrested and sent to Jail ) as the consequences of a screw-up are usually fatal, whereas in a Car there is WAAAAAAY more latitude to make a mistake.
If you ever run into a really good rider on a well set-up modern LiterBike, you are absolute toast, either in a straight line or in the twisties. I can get my lowly little Triumph Daytona 675 with its 114 RWHP (slightly modified) through my local twisties way, way, way faster than I ever could in my Corvette Z06 with Hoosiers and a complete track suspension setup, or in my 550 RWHP Porsche 944 Turbo which was even more track oriented.
Thanks for the post, and looks like you know what you are talking about. Here I was a passenger in this Evo VI and the GSXR1000 was not 100% on it in the start bit then gave it all
I think this is the case in most bike races... They think they have the advantage and they're not giving it all in the beginning, then as soon as the car starts to pull on them they realise they have to gun it and it's already too late.
__________________
2005 BMW M5, it's not on order, it's here!
Sepang Bronze/Sepang Leather/Aluminium - It's in the garage!! And not so much on the road, stupid clutch!!
To clear something up that has been bothering me; my name is Gustav (hello board leader ), my dad's name is Morten. I post 99% of all posts under the MortenDK account - so call me Gustav
Thanks for the post, and looks like you know what you are talking about. Here I was a passenger in this Evo VI and the GSXR1000 was not 100% on it in the start bit then gave it all
Yeah... 800 RWHP will definitely put a dent in even a LiterBike. At these levels, one late or early shift, or being even slightly out of the powerband means you're left for dead. The only way to get a LiterBike to perform at it's absolute best, is that you HAVE to start in your powerband (9000 rpm+) and stay in that powerband, which means shifting at redline and only do clutchless upshifts which are lightning fast. (this requires that you momentarily slightly roll-off the throttle, move the shift lever to the next gear NO CLUTCH and get back on full throttle as soon as possible). If the rider cannot do this, then he will loose a couple of tenths of a second each shift by using the clutch and the engine will lose rpm's between every shift.
The LiterBikes have such a tall first gear, that they reach 104 mph in FIRST!!!! This literally is to stop them flipping over under full power and nailing the rider into the asphalt...
Last edited by Mortalc01l; 9th July 2009 at 23:17.
Having said that, I miss that feeling of having the biggest gun out there. There's something about knowing you have enough motor to destroy almost anything you may run up against in a straight line. Around here, most people set their Cars up for handling, not absolute maximum power. I think the most powerful Car I have ever come up against in the SF Bay area was a guy with a Toyota Supra Turbo that claimed he had 900 HP... Mostly, it's 997 TT's, Ferrari 430's, the occasional Porsche Carrera GT... We very seldom see the real high HP cars here. And I'm all about the turns myself, that's where I get my thrills.
), my dad's name is Morten. I post 99% of all posts under the MortenDK account - so call me Gustav 
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