Heat-cycling Pirelli PZero Corsa System tires

PMac · 20th April 2009, 22:34

I just ordered a set of these tires in OEM sizes, and suddenly thought about whether to heat cycle them or not. I called Pirelli, and the official line was "Well, they're DOT approved, and you're not really going to push them on the street, so I guess not."

These will be primarily for street use, and occasional very light track work, so I'm wanting to be sure the compound lasts as long as the tread, as opposed to getting hard and going off after a couple of thousand miles.

So, has anybody put these tires on an M5, did you cycle them, and did it make a difference? and if you did, what protocol (how hard for how long, with how much relaxation time)?

Thanks in advance.

DRM · 20th April 2009, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMac

I just ordered a set of these tires in OEM sizes, and suddenly thought about whether to heat cycle them or not. I called Pirelli, and the official line was "Well, they're DOT approved, and you're not really going to push them on the street, so I guess not."

These will be primarily for street use, and occasional very light track work, so I'm wanting to be sure the compound lasts as long as the tread, as opposed to getting hard and going off after a couple of thousand miles.

So, has anybody put these tires on an M5, did you cycle them, and did it make a difference? and if you did, what protocol (how hard for how long, with how much relaxation time)?

Thanks in advance.

First, congrats on opting for R-Comps. You'll like them; A LOT!! 'Handling dynamics will be 100% improved; even on a bone stock car. If you have power or suspension mods, so much the better for sticky traction. My God, there are folks running around on street tires (or worse, MT drag radials on rear), with "stroker motors" or 150+ shot NOS set-ups. I just don't get it. Those Pirellis are a bit more expensive, but jeez.

Anyway, since you're doing mostly street driving, no need to heat cycle right out of the box. 1st time to a road racing track, just do your first session @ 7 - 8 10ths. Then pit and immediately check tire psi. All four should be no more than 40 - 42 psi "HOT"; so set them cold @ 32 fr and 34 rr, before going out on track. You can make slight adjustments, as you learn how your tires behave at your particular track.

'Tires might feel a bit "greasy" during 1st track session. Don't worry. Assuming you've done at least 4 - 6 laps, they'll rest when you pit and adjust "HOT" temps down to 40 psi, if necessary. You should be "good to go" for your next session; although it sometimes takes 2 sessions for the greasiness to completely go away. After that, 'tires will be good for street or track, 'till threads start showing (LOL).

Have fun and enjoy...........

PMac · 21st April 2009, 00:34

Sweet! Great reply. Thanks. I always felt that the M5 was over-engined and under-gripped, and I'm hoping these tires will restore the balance a bit. The roads around here are a bit slippery, and I get TC coming on, even in MDM, with even partial throttle in 1st, sometimes 2nd gear. 100% bone stock, even down to the charcoal filters.

kglesq · 21st April 2009, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMac

Sweet! Great reply. Thanks. I always felt that the M5 was over-engined and under-gripped, and I'm hoping these tires will restore the balance a bit. The roads around here are a bit slippery, and I get TC coming on, even in MDM, with even partial throttle in 1st, sometimes 2nd gear. 100% bone stock, even down to the charcoal filters.

+1

6pack · 21st April 2009, 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMac

I just ordered a set of these tires in OEM sizes, and suddenly thought about whether to heat cycle them or not. I called Pirelli, and the official line was "Well, they're DOT approved, and you're not really going to push them on the street, so I guess not."

These will be primarily for street use, and occasional very light track work, so I'm wanting to be sure the compound lasts as long as the tread, as opposed to getting hard and going off after a couple of thousand miles.

So, has anybody put these tires on an M5, did you cycle them, and did it make a difference? and if you did, what protocol (how hard for how long, with how much relaxation time)?

Thanks in advance.

Exactly which sizes did you buy for the m5? Was it 285/35/zr19 and 255/40/zr19?

M5Ranger · 21st April 2009, 04:07

PMac great choice of tires. The Pirelli PZero Corsa are awesome tires.
Do not worry about heat cycling initially.
I run them on the GT3RS and GT3. They came as the OEM tires on the GT3RS. I removed the Michelin Pilot sport cups form the GT3 for the Pirelli Corsas.
The Corsa's are great for the track (w/ treadwear of 60) but due to the tread pattern are very good for daily driving and wet conditions.
Much superior to the Michelin Pilot sport cups as an all round tire.

Great choice and good luck. Enjoy the track.

Ranger

MRichmond · 21st April 2009, 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Ranger

The Corsa's are great for the track (w/ treadwear of 60) but due to the tread pattern are very good for daily driving and wet conditions.

Treadware of 60 and "very good for daily driving" are fairly contradictory concepts. I think if PMac will be dissatisfied if the tires are gone "after a couple thousand miles," a R-comp is not the best choice. (Consider that many people are not getting 10,000 miles on street tires.) I am sure PMac will appreciate the added performance on the track and the very few times he pushes the car hard enough on the street to take advantage of the added threshold, but I suspect he will be replacing them earlier than he would like. The other question is how many heat cycles the Corsas tolerate. Many R-comp tires heat cycle out before the tread comes close to wearing out. I wonder what the Pirelli rep would say constitutes a heat cycle for the Corsas.

NobleM400 · 21st April 2009, 06:53

Wow.

I have no horse in this race, but here's my 2 cents:

PMac: Have you considered asking the company you purchased the tire from what their charge for heat cycling them before shipping them to you is? TireRack, an M5board vendor, does this in a controlled manner and for a very reasonable charge:

Tire Tech Information - Competition Tire Heat Cycling Service&

I'm currently using the Michelin Pilot Sport CUP on another car (not the M5), and used the Corsa Motorsport right before that. The Corsa Motorsport is a grippier version of the Corsa System, with no additional grooves cut into the tire.

Corsa Motorsport for front & rear (best grip):

The Corsa System consists of the Directionale front tire (to help resist hydroplaining):

and the Asimmetrico rear tire (blocks help grip better):

Straight from the horses mouth (Pirelli Tire Corp), the Motorsport is grippier, but has a bit shorter lifespan and is marginally worse in deep or standing water.

Comparing the Michelin and the Pirelli tires, I agree with M5Ranger that the Michelin definitely take longer to heat up. Both are greasy when cold, but the Pirelli come up to operating temp quicker. This is probably a bigger issue on a lighter car than a heavier car (which generates heat more quickly).

In terms of overall grip, the tires are pretty similar, with the (very slight) edge going perhaps to the Michelin. The key though, is the Michelin do have slightly softer sidewalls than the Pirelli, and do like a bit more camber. It also seems to do better with a bit stiffer suspension. So, which tire works better FOR YOU depends on YOUR CAR'S SETUP. Both tires though should be easily more grippy than the Corsa System tires.

In terms of breakaway characteristics, I think the Michelin are a tad more predictable. That line between stick and slide is a bit easier to probe.

Anyhow, that's my feeling. I'm not a pro driver by any means though.

Here is a pro driver's take on it, from a German Porsche magazine. He tests the Corsa Motorsport vs the Pilot Sport Cup (and two other tires) on a 996 GT3. It's in German, but there's English translation in the boxes. The conclusions he draws seem to be much the same:

http://www.nobleforums.com/images/on.../tires/gt3.pdf

ur20v · 21st April 2009, 09:53

My 2 cents, some times a 'softer' tyre can last longer than a 'harder' tyre due to less slip/spin. This has been born out of my experience with cars and bikes on track. But I know nothing about any of the tyres here to give any more insight than that.

All tyres are different and react differently to different cars (911 v E60 etc) which is down to weight, suspension set up and quality but also track conditions eg surface grip, contaminants temp and also driving styles and preferences etc. So the best way to find out is yes ask questions and if someone has tried the same for same or even similar it will possibly help make an informed decission but mainly its down to 'suck it and see'

You pays your money and makes your choice. Tyres, suspension, handling and feel are all subjective even at F1 levels, It comes down to the man behind the wheel.

Good luck with these tyres and please give use feed back on both the cycling question and how you actually get on wit5h them.

Regards

Jay

PMac · 21st April 2009, 20:12

So, to answer some of the questions:

"Exactly which sizes did you buy for the m5? Was it 285/35/zr19 and 255/40/zr19?"
Yep.

"I run them on the GT3RS and GT3. They came as the OEM tires on the GT3RS. I removed the Michelin Pilot sport cups form the GT3 for the Pirelli Corsas.
The Corsa's are great for the track (w/ treadwear of 60) but due to the tread pattern are very good for daily driving and wet conditions.
Much superior to the Michelin Pilot sport cups as an all round tire."

Great, that was the main reason I bought them. Knowing they were OEM on a bunch of cars that had some serious thought put into them was comforting. I live in Austin, so cold performance is pretty unimportant, but wet weather performance is a consideration. I drive my kids around in the M5 a lot, and if I get caught in the rain, I need to know I can get home safely.

"I am sure PMac will appreciate the added performance on the track and the very few times he pushes the car hard enough on the street to take advantage of the added threshold, but I suspect he will be replacing them earlier than he would like. The other question is how many heat cycles the Corsas tolerate. Many R-comp tires heat cycle out before the tread comes close to wearing out. I wonder what the Pirelli rep would say constitutes a heat cycle for the Corsas."

Also, great points. I don't drive terribly hard on the street, but I find myself with tire slip quite often in conditions that I just don't think should result in it. The road surface in Austin seems to be more slippery that other areas I've driven, and I'm constantly activating DSC. The PS2s are lasting very well, so I'm hoping that the wear on the P0CS tires will, while not as good as the PS2s, will be tolerable. In my mind, anything over 6,000 miles per set is acceptable. We'll see how it pans out. I'm also concerned about the compound going off first, hence the question. As for the track, I have the Panoz for that. I tend to use the M5 mostly just to show people around. I certainly drive harder than on the street, but we're not talking about shaving tenths off my lap times either.

"PMac: Have you considered asking the company you purchased the tire from what their charge for heat cycling them before shipping them to you is? TireRack, an M5board vendor, does this in a controlled manner and for a very reasonable charge:"
I originally tried to order the tires online through TireRack, and specified the heat cycling option, but when the assymetric left and right showed up my cart, they weren't specified as being L or R, so I placed the order over the phone to be sure, and like the lackwit I am, forgot about the heat cycling. I figured for $15 per tire, with a full 48 hour relaxation period, it was no-brainer.

Thanks for the input, everybody! Once the tires are on, and I've got a few miles on them, I'll post up a back-to-back comparison with the PS2s.