2008 Dinan Stroker M5 versus 2009 Cadillac CTS-V - Page 8 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums

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Old 3rd March 2009, 18:36   #71
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How did I miss this thread? Nice run Darren - looks like your beast is pulling nice and strong... you gotta be a proud parent....

So now I am even more ticked that my beast malfunctioned in the big "D"..

Anyway.. the dyno subject.. Both cars are naturally aspirating engines.. How can we discount one of the cars dynos, but not the other? Just a question....

I know there was a vette video in here (nice run btw ), but I think we are all still trying to see a Z06 run just for comparison to see what lengths you have on each other.. It's a good baseline for the NOS system, and for the ASR consumer - it would give them all a great determination as to how the outcome would turn out. I know exactly how my car reacted / beat the Z06, and could give a completely fair and honest opinion on how I think the outcome would be.. Unless anyone's willing to trailer their car anywhere? Anyone... Anyone... Bueller... Bueller.. you there?

I know when my car is ready I'll be game to go pretty much (within reason) anywhere to have a little fun, and of course have a mighty toast when the deed is done..
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Old 3rd March 2009, 19:01   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSheepC6 View Post
What you guys don't understand about that CTS-V is that it has 100hp hiding in it JUST from a tune... This is the exact same motor that is in the ZR1 which makes 640hp. It is just detuned.. $299 for a tune $300 for a pulley and $300 for CAI.... 600rwhp no problem.. If he wanted to do a cam and headers he would see 700rwhp... That car has so much potential it is crazy... When that thing is tuned with a pulley I will be scared...

First, your car is sweet....(and Darren's!)

It is difficult to compare NA vs. forced induction motors, as Ranger points out.

The new Ms will likely be forced induction in which case, tuning will be available..... I don't look forward to the loss of throttle response but I may be persuaded to look the other way with a 100-150hp $2000 software tune.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:01   #73
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Originally Posted by BlackSheepC6 View Post
What you guys don't understand about that CTS-V is that it has 100hp hiding in it JUST from a tune... This is the exact same motor that is in the ZR1 which makes 640hp. It is just detuned.. $299 for a tune $300 for a pulley and $300 for CAI.... 600rwhp no problem.. If he wanted to do a cam and headers he would see 700rwhp... That car has so much potential it is crazy... When that thing is tuned with a pulley I will be scared...
If I am not mistaken, the CTS-V does not have the forged internals of the ZR1 motor. It may be capable of the 600-700rwhp.... but it may not be a long-term proposition.

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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:05   #74
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Originally Posted by M5 Junky View Post
Anyway.. the dyno subject.. Both cars are naturally aspirating engines.. How can we discount one of the cars dynos, but not the other? Just a question....
If you're referring to Darren's car and the CTS-V, the Caddy is a supercharged car, not NA.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:06   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
First, your car is sweet....(and Darren's!)

It is difficult to compare NA vs. forced induction motors, as Ranger points out.

The new Ms will likely be forced induction in which case, tuning will be available..... I don't look forward to the loss of throttle response but I may be persuaded to look the other way with a 100-150hp $2000 software tune.
Unfortunately, the tuners will most likely charge twice that amount when they see the M badge. They will claim that they need to be compensated for all the R&D..and all the other bull.. Exactly what they say when it comes to the MB V12TT...they charge astronomical prices (i.e. RENNtech $5,800) because they know that it is such a huge increase in hp that they will not be selling too many other performance products for that application....so nail the consumer while they can.

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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:17   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
Unfortunately, the tuners will most likely charge twice that amount when they see the M badge. They will claim that they need to be compensated for all the R&D..and all the other bull.. Exactly what they say when it comes to the MB V12TT...they charge astronomical prices (i.e. RENNtech $5,800) because they know that it is such a huge increase in hp that they will not be selling too many other performance products for that application....so nail the consumer while they can.

Tom
At the same time, hopefully the relative ease at increasing horsepower through software applications will inspire some healthy competition among a number of tuners, thereby driving the price down. The will be some risk, of course, in getting work done by new and yet-unestablished vendors.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:27   #77
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At the same time, hopefully the relative ease at increasing horsepower through software applications will inspire some healthy competition among a number of tuners, thereby driving the price down. The will be some risk, of course, in getting work done by new and yet-unestablished vendors.
Very true...

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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:49   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5 Junky View Post
Anyway.. the dyno subject.. Both cars are naturally aspirating engines.. How can we discount one of the cars dynos, but not the other? Just a question....
The CTS-V is supercharged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
If I am not mistaken, the CTS-V does not have the forged internals of the ZR1 motor. It may be capable of the 600-700rwhp.... but it may not be a long-term proposition.
Correct, it uses the same block but there are some significant differences on the internal make-up... piston, rods, dry sump system, super charger.

CTS-V uses a motor callled an LSA
ZR1 uses a motor called the LS9
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Old 3rd March 2009, 20:52   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
If I am not mistaken, the CTS-V does not have the forged internals of the ZR1 motor. It may be capable of the 600-700rwhp.... but it may not be a long-term proposition.

Tom
The hypereutectic pistons are fine for a safe 700rwhp if tuned properly.. There are many S/C LS2 and LS3 vette's w/ over 700rwhp that are daily driven without a meltdown..
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Old 3rd March 2009, 22:01   #80
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I'd like to see a comparison of darrens car on a dyno with and without fans specifically feeding the air intakes (outer inlets on the front bumper). I think that alone will show how airflow makes a difference.

Also, I will trust Dinan to come out with a reasonably priced tune or the new M if it is indeed forced induction. They only charge between 1.5 and 2.5k for the 335i yet it's about the same for tunes on the other newer cars. I don't see a tune costing more than it costs for the S85.
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