OK, what about the people that HAD a good job and lost it, finally took any job to help pay bills but could not make what they used to make. Now they are going to lose their home, cars and have been forced into a situation they did not foresee. I am talking about well educated people who had 6-12 months of savings and a 401k that got wiped out. People that did not live above their means, but now can not make %50 of what they were making.
Where do these people fit in?
__________________
"Motion does not equal progress"...Cos
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium...
Last edited by Cosmos; 19th February 2009 at 01:16.
OK, what about the people that HAD a good job and lost it, finally took any job to help pay bills but could not make what they used to make. Now they are going to lose their home, cars and have been forced into a situation they did not foresee. I am talking about well educated people who had 6-12 months of savings and a 401k that got wiped out. People that did not live above their means, but now can not make %50 of what they were making.
Where do these people fit in?
Cosmos, these people always come out on top..... It might be rough for a couple of years but these people by their nature will always find the best available job.
The false middle class will get crushed completely. These people lived above their means on easy credit.
I think rampant consumerism is dead for the next decade.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"...... Enzo Ferrari
Cosmos, these people always come out on top..... It might be rough for a couple of years but these people by their nature will always find the best available job.
The false middle class will get crushed completely. These people lived above their means on easy credit.
I think rampant consumerism is dead for the next decade.
I think most of us live beyond our means. How many of us have mortgages, leases, financed cars, credit cards? -- I would bet 90%+. Isn't that all easy credit? Without credit most would not be able to buy houses, cars, M's and AMGs. But I agree, the era of easy money and consumerism has come to an end. The process of adjustment and debt restructuring would be painful and time consuming. So gents, if the solution is less spending and more saving then why is our govt spending trillions and where are they getting those trills from??? So the consumer is tapped out, now it is the govt's turn to leverage and spend -- total nonsense. "too much spending is the problem" yet the best minds on in Washington think that the way to get out is to spend even more ..... ???? These politicians are out of their minds...
The best option would be to admit mistakes, admit the reality, face the consequences and move on. Admit that banks are insolvent, admit that we need more saving not more spending, admit that we have a rough road ahead, admit that the system is flawed, admit that we are ripping off the tax payers, admit it all... and move on.
I think most of us live beyond our means. How many of us have mortgages, leases, financed cars, credit cards? -- I would bet 90%+. Isn't that all easy credit? Without credit most would not be able to buy houses, cars, M's and AMGs. But I agree, the era of easy money and consumerism has come to an end.
I will dig up an article somewhere but Americans were spending 6% above their incomes over the last few years versus 9% savings in other times.... In aggregate that is huge.
I think all of us have some form of debt be it mortgage or very short term credit cards....
Just because you can doesn't mean you should spend the money that you have access to.
As Americans revert to savings, the paradox is this hurts the recovery and companies need to scale to the new level of spending (more layoffs).
We can all blame the bankers for creating the credit issues but the heart of the problem is individual greed / spending. Many people were not taking responsibility (or were ignorant) about spending.
All kidding aside, I have a hate on for TV Channels like TLC, that compress housing flips in 30 to 60 minute shows, indirectly selling the theory of continual housing value appreciation. Shows like these set a completely unrealistic expectations....everyone was catching up with the Jones for the past 5 years....Now it is over. Channels like TLC are every bit of wrong
Another case in point...we all remember the stupid woman on disability insurance who leased an M6?? This is a little microcosm of why our economy is in the dumper right now....greedy individuals and credit enablers... http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/807688
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"...... Enzo Ferrari
Last edited by T Bone; 19th February 2009 at 03:39.
Well, we can look at it this way. The free market system is working just the way it is supposed to work. People over spent and now they are saving and the system is cyclical. What has messed this up is the Government on both fronts. 1) by allowing easy credit through the form of non regulatory oversight for the banks that by their own free will allowed to falsify ratings on securities 2) the fed dropping its pants and 3) now again by pumping borrowed money into the economy. The people have realized their mistakes and are saving now more since pre-depression era. What we have currently is a failed economic cycle. It is NOT allowed to naturally correct itself due to too much intervention. If the banks did not receive any money and were allowed to fail, this would have taught you and the banks a lesson about what a free market economy is really about, however this is would have President Jefferson rolling in his grave. Also lets not kid ourselves, The New Deal did not get the US out of the depression, a huge giant war that needed man power, brain power and industry got us out. So here's hoping for an Alien Invasion. I leave you with this quote from Jefferson:
"I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
__________________
"Motion does not equal progress"...Cos
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium...
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cosmos For This Useful Post:
psguy (19th February 2009), TimK (19th February 2009)
Exactly, Cosmos! The markets will always exert corrective forces when imbalances persist. It HAS to happen. An enormous borrowing-spending bill will have a small impact in the short term, and no impact in the long term except tremendous debt. 5-6 years from now the economy will be exactly where it would have been without the stimulus.
__________________
Euro headlamps, Evosport headers, Dinan exhaust and stage 1 Software, H&R spacers, de-charcoal, BMC filters, Angel ibright 3.0,
The best option would be to admit mistakes, admit the reality, face the consequences and move on. Admit that banks are insolvent, admit that we need more saving not more spending, admit that we have a rough road ahead, admit that the system is flawed, admit that we are ripping off the tax payers, admit it all... and move on.
We are down by 50% here in Aus. We have shed expenses as much as we can, but who knows.
If I could offload the beast it would be gone too.
DD
__________________
E60 M5 Silverstone 11 | VW Tiguan 125TSI Turbo
M5: The car above all others. Cash - used to be as good as money once upon a time....
A study showed that people undergoing financial difficulties prioritize their expenses putting their cable and phone bills at the top of their must pay list and dental and medical bills at the bottom of their list. People feel that the dentist can wait and the worst thing the dentist can do to you is send your bill to collection where it will take months and years to settle. People forget that we also have families that we must feed and M5 leases we have to pay for. So please respect and pay your dentist...
What's funny dude is that I STILL have a direct TV collection YES COLLECTION from some unknown place that has been on my credit for years, I've challenged it at least 5 times and it won't go away, yet every time I call Direct TV they have no clue of what it is, and everytime I call the collection agency they have nothing either. Oddly enough I still have DirecTV at home and have never once had a missed bill. It's driving me NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've literally had to take legal action, I hired a credit repair guy @ $600 FOR JUST THIS ONE THING because it's showing as an open account (like WTH). But upon presenting my social to both places, no one has ANYTHING under my name, yet someone keeps confirming that I owe directv $215 so it wont come off my credit. But I can't pay it because no one knows what the hell I'm talking about or who I am (other than a good standing customer at Directv) when I call them.
I never understood that either. Every time I look up my credit report there are these strange phone #s and apartment addresses from 15 years ago that I have no clue how they got on my report. I learned to ignore it since no one seems to know how it got there or how to remove it. Collection is so complicated too, every time we send someone to collection we hear back from the collection agency a year later and they either send us 5% of the original money or they send us a 20 page long court document stating that the person filed for bankruptcy and I have to go to court to get some of my money back which I don't and I end up writing it off anyways. Strange system and I don't understand how people get away with it. fficeffice" />
Webmaster 
ffice" />
Linear Mode
