Upcoming article_ Road Track: BMW M5 '08 SMG vs Cadillac CTS-V - Page 4 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

mosesgolf · 24th August 2008, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew P's M5

M5 is going down...in every category. Unfortunately, BMW screwed up with the E60. It simply isn't as good as what the E39 was at launch. The interior looks like s***, with cheap plastics and all. Seriously, have you ever looked at the HVAC housing for the rear passengers? They tried to address it with the refresh in 2007. The refresh for the E39 was minor at best, because the car was almost perfect.

The fact is that the V will spank the M. It almost happened with the very first CTS-V...it was not better but it was cheaper and offered very similar performance. Now, GM has addressed all the issues...and forget matching the power, they superceeded it.

Sure GM is a copy cat, but doing it better is the way to go...that's what the Japs did to the Americans...and now Americans will do it to the Germans. A good indication is the fact that there is no other 4 door sedan in the world that has more than 500hp combined with a manual tranny...even BMW forgot about it when the E60 was launched...

I am looking for a replacement for my E39, and as much as I want to love the E60, I just can't...that V on the other hand has been calling my name...

No hater responses please

...this is just my opinion.

And my opinion is that you are wrong.

C'mon dude. It's a CaddiLACK.

M V10 · 24th August 2008, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by xraym5

The only thing "faster" will be top speed in a delimited M5. However, the higher torque in the V will give it faster acceleration and almost certainly faster quarter mile times. It has already shown a 0-60 of 3.9 seconds:
http://caddyedge.com/news/2008/06/09/cts-v-status-unveiled0-60-in-39-seconds-and-556hp/

Regarding the upcoming article, I'd like to see the M5 give it a challenge around the track, but we already know about how the V did at the Nürburgring:
2009 Cadillac CTS-V Outruns the BMW M3 and M5 at the Ring - Car News/Latest News & Reviews/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

It is pretty funny that Car And Driver refers to the Sport Auto test of the M5, actually the M5 did a 7:52 min run with BMW:s testdrivers, the same thing the CTS-V did, with their OWN drivers, different drivers, different times, keep that in mind!

Pure acceleration isn´t just 0-60 mph time, I want to see 0-100 mph and beyond that. You can get a stock Evo VI with 280 hp to run even with an M5 from 0-60 mph...and that´s not interesting for me, I do have a life beyond 60 mph.

The M5 will win it, mark my words

EM_5 · 24th August 2008, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by M V10

...actually the M5 did a 7:52 min run with BMW:s testdrivers, the same thing the CTS-V did, with their OWN drivers, different drivers, different times, keep that in mind!

I never knew that. Is there a link to this? Was the M5 stock?

xraym5 · 24th August 2008, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by M V10

It is pretty funny that Car And Driver refers to the Sport Auto test of the M5, actually the M5 did a 7:52 min run with BMW:s testdrivers, the same thing the CTS-V did, with their OWN drivers, different drivers, different times, keep that in mind!

Pure acceleration isn´t just 0-60 mph time, I want to see 0-100 mph and beyond that. You can get a stock Evo VI with 280 hp to run even with an M5 from 0-60 mph...and that´s not interesting for me, I do have a life beyond 60 mph.

The M5 will win it, mark my words

In addition to the 0-60 time, in my last post I was also referring to the CTS-V's quarter mile time (12.0 seconds) and exit speed (118 MPH). You have a good point, though. It would be nice to see how the two cars compare at Autobahn speeds. I had never heard about the 7:52 ring time for the M5, but that is good news indeed. BTW, despite my skepticism, I really am pulling for the M5 in this test and other tests to come.

M V10 · 24th August 2008, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by EM_5

I never knew that. Is there a link to this? Was the M5 stock?

The only link I can find right now!

Nurenburgring lap times? - The Cayman Club

Top laptimes at the Nürburgring Nordschleife:

7:28 — 166.652 km/h — Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl,(Autobild July 2004)

7:32.00 — Pagani Zonda F, Sport Auto Magazine

7:32.44 163.911 km/h — Porsche Carrera GT, definitive time Horst Von Saurma (sport auto 01/2004)

7:32.52 163.882 km/h — Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann

7:36 — 162.631 km/h — AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36, 350 hp, Michelin Sport Cup R , Mattias Ekblom

7:36 — 162.631 km/h — Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)

7:39 — 161.575 km/h — Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1180 kg

7:40 — 161.217 km/h — Corvette Z06 Blue Devil, 600 PS/ 1419.7 kg (estimated), Jan Magnusen (AutoBild 7/2005)

7:40* — 161.217 km/h — Porsche Carrera GT, *cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/2003)

7:40 — 161.217 km/h — Porsche GT3 RS, stock but Pirelli P Zero Corsa, Mattias Ekblom (ams)

7:40 — 161.217 km/h — Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig (Autobild 07/2004)

7:41 — 160.868 km/h – Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp (AutoBild 07/2004)

7:42 — 160.519 km/h — Mosler MT900S Photon, Joao Barbosa, 2004 (according to dailysportscar.net)

7:42 — 160.519 km/h — Radical 1500 SR3, 230 PS/510 kg (2002)

7:43 — 160.173 km/h — TechArt Porsche GT Street, 620 PS/1453 kg, (sport auto 08/2002)

7:43 — 160.173 km/h — Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Röhrl (MOTOR Magazine)

7:43.5 - 160,000 km/h — Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 2002)

7:44 — 159.828 km/h — Pagani Zonda C12 S, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 07/2002)

7:45 — 159.484 km/h — Gemballa Porsche GTR 600, 600hp (2000)

7:45* — 159.484 km/h — McLaren F1 * Estimated laptime

7:46 — 159.142 km/h — Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2001)

7:46 — 159.142 km/h — Jaguar XJ220, John Walton (EVO magzine)

7:46 — 159.142 km/h — SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652hp (sport auto 1999)

7:47 — 158.801 km/h — Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381hp (sport auto 03/2004)

7.49 — 158.124 km/h — Porsche GT3, 392hp (AutoBild 2004)

7:49 — 158.124 km/h — Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/1999)

7:49.72 157.885 km/h — Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne 1993 (moto bike)

7:50 — 157.787 km/h — BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/2003)

7:50 — 157.787 km/h — Blitz Supra, 750hp, Herbert Schürg (1997)

7:50 — 157.787 km/h — Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2002)

7:50 — 157.787 km/h – Westfield Super 7 with Hayabusa engine

7:52 — 157.119 km/h – BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg

7:52 — 157.119 km/h — Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (sport auto 1995)

7:52 — 157.119 km/h — Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (sport auto 12/2003)

7:52 — 157.119 km/h — Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/2004)

7:54 — 156.456 km/h – Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582bPS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/2005)

7:54 — 156.456 km/h — Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/2003)

7:55 — 156.126 km/h — Caterham R500 Superlight, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/2000)

7:56 — 155.798 km/h — Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/2004)

7:56 — 155.798 km/h — Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/2000)

7:56 — 155.798 km/h — Chevrolet Corvette C6 (company test driver Dave Hill)

7:57 — 155.472 km/h — Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/1998)

7:59 — 154.822 km/h — Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance‿, (Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)

7:59 — 154.822 km/h — Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, Dirk Schoymans (Autocar magazine 1997)

8:02 — 154.338 km/h — Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport‿, (Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)

8:03 — 153.540 km/h — Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/1999)

8:04 — 153.223 km/h — Lamborghini Diablo GT, 575 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 07/2000)

8:05 — 152.907 km/h — Ferrari 575M Maranello F1, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 12/2002)

8:05 — 152.907 km/h — Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard‿, Walter Röhrl (WHEELS 06/2004)

8:05 — 152.907 km/h — Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/2005)

8:05 — 152.907 km/h – Ruf CTR

8:06 — 152.592 km/h — Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (sport auto 04/2002)

8:06 — 152.592 km/h — Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn

8:07 — 152.279 km/h – Ferrari 550 Maranello, 485 PS/1724 kg (sport auto 06/1998)

8:09 — 151.656 km/h — Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg (sport auto 08/2002)

8:09 — 151.656 km/h — Ferrari 360 Modena , 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/1999)

8:09 — 151.656 km/h — Lamborghini Diablo SV, 520 PS/1590 kg (sport auto 12/1997)

8:10 — 151.114 km/h – Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear feb,2005)

8:10 — 151.114 km/h — Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/1997)

8:10 — 151.347 km/h — Donkervoort D8 180R, 210 PS/650 kg (sport auto 03/2001)

8:11 — 151,274 km/h – Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1340 kg, test driver Walter Roehrl (sport auto 07/2005)

8:12 — 150.732 km/h — Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG, 476 PS/1651 kg (sport auto 04/2002)

8:12 — 150.732 km/h — Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/1997)

8:12 — 150.732 km/h — Porsche 993 Turbo works tuning (sport auto 06/1997)

8:13 — 150.426 km/h — BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/2004)

8:13 — 150.426 km/h — Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS/1324 kg (sport auto 05/1999)

8:13 — 150.426 km/h — Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/2004)

8:14 — 150.120 km/h – Mercedes SL 65 AMG, 612 PS/2049 kg (sport auto 01/2005)

8:15 — 149.818 km/h – Alpina Roadster S, 300 PS/1416 kg (sport auto 6/2005)

8:15* — 149.818 km/h — Holden GTS (2000), *estimated

8:15 — 149.818 km/h — Porsche 997 Carrera 2 (Walter Röhrl - WHEELS 06/2004)

8:15 — 149.818 km/h — Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 hp

8:16 — 149.516 km/h — AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36, 350 PS (sport auto 11/1997)

8:16 — 149.516 km/h — AC-Schnitzer V8 Topster, 450 PS/1557kg (sport auto 01/2005)

8:16 — 149.516 km/h — Aston Martin DB9, 457hp (sport auto 11/2004)

8:16 — 149.516 km/h — Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (best motoring video 14)

8:17 — 149.215 km/h — Aston Martin V12 Vanquish, 515 PS/1775 kg (sport auto 01/2003)

8:17 — 149.215 km/h — Porsche 911 Carrera, 320 PS/1399 kg (sport auto 06/2001)

8:17 — 149.215 km/h — Porsche 996 Carrera 2, 320 PS/1399 kg (sport auto 02/2001)

8:18 — 149.916 km/h — BMW Z8, 400PS/1651 kg (sport auto 08/2000)

8:18 — 149.916 km/h — Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (sport auto 09/2003)

8:18 — 149.916 km/h — Ferrari F355, 380 PS/1350 kg (sport auto 06/1997

mikem · 24th August 2008, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew P's M5

M5 is going down...in every category. Unfortunately, BMW screwed up with the E60. It simply isn't as good as what the E39 was at launch. The interior looks like s***, with cheap plastics and all. Seriously, have you ever looked at the HVAC housing for the rear passengers? They tried to address it with the refresh in 2007. The refresh for the E39 was minor at best, because the car was almost perfect.

The fact is that the V will spank the M. It almost happened with the very first CTS-V...it was not better but it was cheaper and offered very similar performance. Now, GM has addressed all the issues...and forget matching the power, they superceeded it.

Sure GM is a copy cat, but doing it better is the way to go...that's what the Japs did to the Americans...and now Americans will do it to the Germans. A good indication is the fact that there is no other 4 door sedan in the world that has more than 500hp combined with a manual tranny...even BMW forgot about it when the E60 was launched...

I am looking for a replacement for my E39, and as much as I want to love the E60, I just can't...that V on the other hand has been calling my name...

No hater responses please

...this is just my opinion.

Having had a CTS-V...

It is nowhere close to the build, performance or quality of the M5. Nowhere close!!!!

In regards to the new CTS-V...

I hope Cadillac does get it right. In order to get the complete package they need to make it faster (and it is), make it handle much better (and appears they have), have much better build quality (this is to be seen), and actually stand behind their product with their warranties (this is to be seen).

The real question here is how many of us would be interested in buying an 09 CTS-V versus how many will wait to see what the next M5 is?

Given my past experience with Caddy I will wait and hear how warranty issues are handled AND to see what the next M5 is.

EM_5 · 24th August 2008, 15:55

M V10 - Thanks for the link. Looks like Hans Stuck was driving the M5. I'm wodering why everyone refers to the 8:13 time and not the 7:52 time??

Now that is impressive!!!

Barry Lausch · 24th August 2008, 16:02

I'm curious about two issues with the V. MPG & fuel tank size number one and does this thing have a DIP STICK ?

absent · 24th August 2008, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Lausch

I'm curious about two issues with the V. MPG & fuel tank size number one and does this thing have a DIP STICK ?

My only complaints with the M5!
I will get the CTS ,if only to just carry me over until new M5 comes out....

Dick Fidd · 24th August 2008, 20:51

That 7:52 time is crazy - ahead of the Ferrari CS by 4 secs... I've been shopping CS' for about 3 mos. and was convinced it would stomp the M5 on the track and keep up in a straight line below 120MPH. Not true?