Confused about Headers and Cats - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
Rambino
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Confused about Headers and Cats

The Headers on the US model have the cats integrated in them..

Many replace the headers with the supersprint, but is it possible to just leave the stock headers and replace the cats?

VIA Turner Motorsport
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...0M5-STAGE2-KIT

It appears they have a straight pipe for the header cats without changing the headers themselves.. Am I correct in this assumption?

I know that KiethTA did supersprint headers and high flow cats.. I never quite understood what he meant. Did he do the Supersprint Headers with No cats, and replaced the second set with high flow cats, or did he do the Supersprint headers with a section of integrated Hi Flow cats..

Basically are the cats on the headers replaceable for a straight pipe instead or is it all one complete system on our stock header setup thats not seperable

If there is just a simple Header Cat Delete, I would assume this would make close to the same power of an entire header system since it removes the biggest restriction.. Also the rest of the header and the 20hrs of labor required in removing and replacing it would not be needed.. Another thing is that if one needed to go back to stock, this should be an easy thing to do.. Am I correct in all these assumptions?

Thanks

Last edited by Rambino; 23rd April 2008 at 04:24 PM.
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post #2 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 04:25 PM
///Marshall
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The primary cats are part of the headers. To remove them you
need to cut them off. If you want to go this route I would suggest
going with RPi. The also use the OEM headers and cut off the cats
however they provide a means to put the cats back on in case of
emissions.

RPi Headers/Exhaust Manifold: Get Smog?

They are also a hell of a lot cheaper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambino View Post
The Headers on the US model have the cats integrated in them..

Many replace the headers with the supersprint, but is it possible to just leave the stock headers and replace the cats?

VIA Turner Motorsport
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...0M5-STAGE2-KIT

It appears they have a straight pipe for the header cats without changing the headers themselves.. Am I correct in this assumption?

I know that KiethTA did supersprint headers and high flow cats.. I never quite understood what he meant. Did he do the Supersprint Headers with No cats, and replaced the second set with high flow cats, or did he do the Supersprint headers with a section of integrated Hi Flow cats..

Basically are the cats on the headers replaceable for a straight pipe instead or is it all one complete system on our stock header setup thats not seperable
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post #3 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
Rambino
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Excellent Info.. Thank you.

I wonder if just going to an exhaust shop and having them cut the cats off the header and weld a a straight pipe would be the same and save all the time and money in replacing the whole header.

In the end when you needed the cats back on, you could goto the exhaust shop and have them re-welded back on..

Any thoughts on this, as Id like to avoid paying 4k and 20hrs of install time.. when i could do some chopping and welding for the same results.. sure its no bolton but it doesnt exactly need to be either..
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post #4 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 04:48 PM
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I don't think they are much cheaper.....They are $4299. And still require 15-20 hours of labor to install.....the only savings is not ever having to re-install stock headers down the road...and can someone tell me please....how the hell someone justify's $4299 for what essentially is cutting off a section and welding on cats? You have to give them your cores....so they are charging $4299 for cats? Am I wrong?





Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Marshall View Post
The primary cats are part of the headers. To remove them you
need to cut them off. If you want to go this route I would suggest
going with RPi. The also use the OEM headers and cut off the cats
however they provide a means to put the cats back on in case of
emissions.

RPi Headers/Exhaust Manifold: Get Smog?

They are also a hell of a lot cheaper

Chris Barton
1988 M5 Black, All the right Mods
2006 Audi A3 Big Turbo
1998 Suburban 10" Lift, Many Mods, Overlander
2006 HD Roadglide Custom
2003 ZRX 1200 Many Mods
1974 H2 750 - Lotsa fun!
1982 GS 1100E Built just right...Sold
2006 M5 Singh ECU, Miro 20's, H&R, Dinan, ACS Rear Window / Trunk Spoiler, Evo, Sold
2001 996TT Stage 4 - 600hp - Sold
1966 GT 350 Replica-427 SBF 570hp - Sold
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post #5 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarton View Post
I don't think they are much cheaper.....They are $4299. And still require 15-20 hours of labor to install.....the only savings is not ever having to re-install stock headers down the road...and can someone tell me please....how the hell someone justify's $4299 for what essentially is cutting off a section and welding on cats? You have to give them your cores....so they are charging $4299 for cats? Am I wrong?

I second that, my solution would be my post above yours.. hacking and welding a straight section should work just as well.. ill go that route as long as i do it with an exhaust shop that knows what there doing.. any forseeable downsides?

Last edited by Rambino; 23rd April 2008 at 04:52 PM.
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post #6 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 05:14 PM
///Marshall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarton View Post
I don't think they are much cheaper.....They are $4299. And still require 15-20 hours of labor to install.....the only savings is not ever having to re-install stock headers down the road...and can someone tell me please....how the hell someone justify's $4299 for what essentially is cutting off a section and welding on cats? You have to give them your cores....so they are charging $4299 for cats? Am I wrong?
Turner quotes 6500. Yes, this includes software but I don't think it
includes installation. If they are charging over 2k for software that's
insane.

I agree, the pricing on headers for our car is outrageous. I'm not sure
we'll see a 1k alternative anytime soon. That's not to say you
couldn't find a shop to do the same job. I wouldn't know how much
they would charge you in this case. Either way you still are effectively
modifying your own headers. You wouldn't have a untouched
replacement without ordering them from somewhere. Maybe
you could buy someone's headers?

I personally recommend buying aftermarket headers and keeping
your stock headers. If you have to swap out you'll need to pay for
the 10-15hr (or 15-20 for SS headers) install again. With the
RPi solution the idea is to reduce the install costs by just
"re-inserting" your cats without having to pull out the headers.
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post #7 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBarton View Post
so they are charging $4299 for cats? Am I wrong?
Actually you're paying for your own cats. They modify them so
that they can clamp/unclamp from your headers. I'm not saying
that's worth 4299...don't shoot the messenger.
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post #8 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 05:48 PM
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Hahaha......no, I didn't realize THAT....so, RPI can you please comment with price justification before I REALLY start to say what I am thinking?

Chris Barton
1988 M5 Black, All the right Mods
2006 Audi A3 Big Turbo
1998 Suburban 10" Lift, Many Mods, Overlander
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post #9 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 05:50 PM
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primary cat delete

guys,

you are assuming that the power gain from aftermarket headers comes from the primary cat delete

check this thread out

EvoSport Header & Pulley Install: Work In Progress (Pictures)

___________________________________________
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post #10 of 40 Old 23rd April 2008, 06:17 PM
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...

...I never understood why anyone would do JUST a certain section of the exhaust...I mean OK the mufflers are one thing{you like a different style tip or you just want your car to sound like you just bought a DINAN stage 3 kit meanwhile you didn't even get enough points for just the "D" let alone the other 4 letters}

...what gustav did is pretty much the only thing that makes sense to me...especially since i like the stock tips[BEST STYLE EVER...straight pipe look, none of that BS folded/curved walls with the chrome finish]...bigger to about 80-90mm would be like the cherry on my pina coolada...obviously i don't mean take a trip to the factory in italy, but if you're gonna do exhaust wait until you have all the money for both the exhaust and the ECU re-map...

some people have a frankestein exhaust system that makes me laugh...SS-headers, Eisenman X-pipe, Dinan Muffler, Hartge cat-deletion, & random pieces from their kitchen sinks to fill in the gaps

do it right:
1-full exhaust
2-ecu
3-open up that front end...why the hell are there all those pieces blocking airflow into the engine[also changing the intake again is like the cherry on the sunday...]

NO:


YES:


NOTE:i actually like supersprint just not the tips in the picture, and i don't like dinan at all...the irony, but they were the best pics i could find
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