So here is the problem. My car is always garaged at work and at home so it rarely sees bad weather. I was out of town for two weeks and my car was outside the entire time. A huge thunderstorm came through the night and the next day I find that the rear footwell carpets are soaked with water, mainly the driver side. Nothing else in my car seems to have gotten wet. Any ideas on what to do about this and what defect is letting water in? Thanks...
Vason
Check to see that your door drain holes aren't blocked, then Check the vapour seals (I think that is what they are called), behind the door cards, a liner that helps to run the water down inside the door and out the drain holes.
There is a detailed post on here somewhere (I think by louv) about removing the door cards (caution re airbags is present and active), and repairing the seals.
I had my rear passenger side seal repaired (dealer said there was a small split in it) and problem is gone.
There is a detailed post on here somewhere (I think by louv) about removing the door cards (caution re airbags is present and active), and repairing the seals.
I had my rear passenger side seal repaired (dealer said there was a small split in it) and problem is gone.
It's probably a leaking vapor barrier in the door. Mine did that also a while back and the dealer fixed it under warranty. If you want a DIY:
http://www.louv.tv/cars/m5/leakydoor/leakydoor.html
Thanks to member Louv for his info.
http://www.louv.tv/cars/m5/leakydoor/leakydoor.html
Thanks to member Louv for his info.
The seals can fail even if no door repairs have been done. I had both rear door seals fail, and no one had ever taken the rear doors apart. But, as mentioned by Douglas, if anyone <i>has</i> been inside the door (like for window regulator repairs) then the likelihood of failure is very high if they didn't use new sealant when putting it all back together.
Be very careful to carefully clean off all the old sealant, and carefully apply the new to get a good quality seal.
(oh, and don't fire a nailgun through the airbag... but that part's probably obvious) :thumbsup:
Be very careful to carefully clean off all the old sealant, and carefully apply the new to get a good quality seal.
(oh, and don't fire a nailgun through the airbag... but that part's probably obvious) :thumbsup:
Common (mine is in next week to try and resolve this).
Most likely candidates are the door seals not allowing proper drainage and sunroof gutters. You should be able to tell which by inspecting as you open the door.
If it is the seals, you'll open the door and a load of water will gush out the bottom of it.
The sunroof gutters connect to pipes, which run across the roof lining and down the rear pillars (I seem to recall). If these get disconnected, the water will find its way down the side of the rear seat, under the rear seat cushion and end up in the footwells. If the vertical carpet panel from the footwell to the rear seat is as wet as the footwell, it'll likely be the gutters.
I recall some people have reproduced the problem when washing the car. Mine's never been quite that bad. A search should turn up some relevant threads.
Most likely candidates are the door seals not allowing proper drainage and sunroof gutters. You should be able to tell which by inspecting as you open the door.
If it is the seals, you'll open the door and a load of water will gush out the bottom of it.
The sunroof gutters connect to pipes, which run across the roof lining and down the rear pillars (I seem to recall). If these get disconnected, the water will find its way down the side of the rear seat, under the rear seat cushion and end up in the footwells. If the vertical carpet panel from the footwell to the rear seat is as wet as the footwell, it'll likely be the gutters.
I recall some people have reproduced the problem when washing the car. Mine's never been quite that bad. A search should turn up some relevant threads.
What's the source of the problem?
I've got the same wet rear floor mats after a hard rain too. "To me" the source of the problem is the door holding water until you open it and it drains out. If the door fills up with water until it pours past the vapor barrier, I can't really blame the vapor barrier for being a poor fish tank!
I need to look at what blocks the door drain when the door is closed, because it is obviously clear when the door is open. Water pours out easily, so the drain is NOT plugged inside the door. Does the weather strip (door gasket) block the drain? I'll look more this weekend. I'll reseal the the vapor barrier while I look.
Seems like resealing the vapor barrier is a work around and not the real fix.
Comments?
Thanks
Dan
I've got the same wet rear floor mats after a hard rain too. "To me" the source of the problem is the door holding water until you open it and it drains out. If the door fills up with water until it pours past the vapor barrier, I can't really blame the vapor barrier for being a poor fish tank!
I need to look at what blocks the door drain when the door is closed, because it is obviously clear when the door is open. Water pours out easily, so the drain is NOT plugged inside the door. Does the weather strip (door gasket) block the drain? I'll look more this weekend. I'll reseal the the vapor barrier while I look.
Seems like resealing the vapor barrier is a work around and not the real fix.
Comments?
Thanks
Dan
Actually, if I understand the design intent (which I may not since I'm trying to figure it out after the fact), the "vapor barrier" is actually a waterproof seal that is designed to channel the water to front of the door for drainage.
In fact, if you look closely at the bottom of the door, the holes where the interior trim attaches using the push clips are below the vapor barrier. If the issue were the door filling with water and overflowing, the vapor barrier wouldn't matter.
Based on my investigation this last week, the design is that water runs down the inside of the door (on both the inside of the outer door skin, the outside of the inner door frame and down the vapor barrier), hits the bottom, and channels to the front of the door to drain.
The issue in my car, as backtraced immediately after a light rain that left water in my footwell, is that the vapor barrier was not sealed, and therefore water running down the inside of it was then running down the inside of the inner door frame where is got trapped by the door seals.
So, to answer your question, I believe resealing the vapor barrier completely should resolve the issue since water would then be prevented from running into the interior of the car.
The key observation is that the holes for the plastic trim attachments would leak long before water reached the vapor barrier by filling the door, so I can't see how that is the issue with leakage...
Doug
In fact, if you look closely at the bottom of the door, the holes where the interior trim attaches using the push clips are below the vapor barrier. If the issue were the door filling with water and overflowing, the vapor barrier wouldn't matter.
Based on my investigation this last week, the design is that water runs down the inside of the door (on both the inside of the outer door skin, the outside of the inner door frame and down the vapor barrier), hits the bottom, and channels to the front of the door to drain.
The issue in my car, as backtraced immediately after a light rain that left water in my footwell, is that the vapor barrier was not sealed, and therefore water running down the inside of it was then running down the inside of the inner door frame where is got trapped by the door seals.
So, to answer your question, I believe resealing the vapor barrier completely should resolve the issue since water would then be prevented from running into the interior of the car.
The key observation is that the holes for the plastic trim attachments would leak long before water reached the vapor barrier by filling the door, so I can't see how that is the issue with leakage...
Doug
Get under your door and clean out the hole in the front of the bottom edge.
In the picture below I am pouring water into the door and it is running out the hole on the bottom edge which MUST be clear, or as you say, the door will fill up with water.
The camera is on the ground, looking up towards the rear left door. (The inner door panel is placed in the "closed door" position, merely for convenience)
![Image]()
In the picture below I am pouring water into the door and it is running out the hole on the bottom edge which MUST be clear, or as you say, the door will fill up with water.
The camera is on the ground, looking up towards the rear left door. (The inner door panel is placed in the "closed door" position, merely for convenience)
two problems
Ok, I think there are really two differnent problems going on with the doors. As louv's procedures show, the loose seal between the door and the vapor barrier results in water on the floor. I could see the water marks on the metal where it was coming in.
However, a separate problem is the door holding water that doesn't drain until the door is opened. Doug is right, if the door was filling with water the holes that have the door panel clips would leak first.
I have both problems. I think I fixed the vapor barrier issue this weekend. I checked the door drains and they are perfectly clear. Does anyone understand why the doors hold water? Is there a fix for that?
Thanks
Ok, I think there are really two differnent problems going on with the doors. As louv's procedures show, the loose seal between the door and the vapor barrier results in water on the floor. I could see the water marks on the metal where it was coming in.
However, a separate problem is the door holding water that doesn't drain until the door is opened. Doug is right, if the door was filling with water the holes that have the door panel clips would leak first.
I have both problems. I think I fixed the vapor barrier issue this weekend. I checked the door drains and they are perfectly clear. Does anyone understand why the doors hold water? Is there a fix for that?
Thanks
DanQ - By virtue of where they are, the door drain holes can only be plugged from the inside. In other words, there is no way for shutting the door to block the holes, only for a foreign object to do so. If you have cleaned them out and re-sealed your vapor barrier, then the only other suggestion is to make sure your car is pointing downhill when it rains 
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You may have been joking with the point downhill theory, but that is actually the best idea I have been able to come up with. I currently park slightly uphill, but when you open the door it angles that front drain down...
Now why its not draining out the rear drain when parked slightly nose up, is the next question.
Now why its not draining out the rear drain when parked slightly nose up, is the next question.
Leaking Water Continues
But don't you all think that BMW should issue a recall on this issue? I have had mine fixed 5 times at the dealer.. both sides, and it still leaks.. Open the door after a rain and woosh out comes the water, if it's a really bad rain, the back footwell is soaked..Carpet smells great now!!!! and that moisture has a way of making it into the AC system and I'm sure causing some mold and mildew buildup. One other thing I suggest is that you all look very carefully at the leather on your door panel....and you may just see a waterline!!!! Or the leather very slightly discoloured or puffy....
If there are this many of us out there with this problem, it is an issue of poor manufacture or design which I think BMW should own up to an fix..Don't you?
I wonder how many folks are out there with this problem
But don't you all think that BMW should issue a recall on this issue? I have had mine fixed 5 times at the dealer.. both sides, and it still leaks.. Open the door after a rain and woosh out comes the water, if it's a really bad rain, the back footwell is soaked..Carpet smells great now!!!! and that moisture has a way of making it into the AC system and I'm sure causing some mold and mildew buildup. One other thing I suggest is that you all look very carefully at the leather on your door panel....and you may just see a waterline!!!! Or the leather very slightly discoloured or puffy....
If there are this many of us out there with this problem, it is an issue of poor manufacture or design which I think BMW should own up to an fix..Don't you?
I wonder how many folks are out there with this problem
Nope, I sure don't.
The issue is not the original design or manufacture - the issue is poor repairs by the dealership.
Mine leaked like a sieve. I took the door panels off, re-sealed the inner seals, and now my footwells are dry.
It isn't rocket science, it just requires patience and the desire to do the job right - something we all have for our own cars, but that others typically do not.
Any design can be broken by an imbecile - doesn't mean it is a bad design, it means the person is an imbecile
d-
The issue is not the original design or manufacture - the issue is poor repairs by the dealership.
Mine leaked like a sieve. I took the door panels off, re-sealed the inner seals, and now my footwells are dry.
It isn't rocket science, it just requires patience and the desire to do the job right - something we all have for our own cars, but that others typically do not.
Any design can be broken by an imbecile - doesn't mean it is a bad design, it means the person is an imbecile
d-
Another place to look: there is a grommet in the firewall on the driver's side that may have come out...mine was gone and water was coming in that hole like a river! I was going crazy because I didnt have any issues with the doors or moonroof....
You have to take the airbox out (up near the windshield under the hood on driver's side) to see the grommet, or hole where the grommet is supposed to be.
You have to take the airbox out (up near the windshield under the hood on driver's side) to see the grommet, or hole where the grommet is supposed to be.
I agree with mstubbins. Poor design by BMW. I helped a friend of mine repair his leaky M5 doors and his were never taken apart for a previous repair. I don't think mine were apart previously either, but I can't guaranty it as I'm not the original owner. My friend, however is the original owner of his '03.
Too many of these things leaking to blame it on previous repairs.... The only ones that don't leak are the ones that are parked in a garage all the time.
If mine start leaking again I may just try to add a flap of plastic and make like a "shingle" that lays inside the door frame and lets the water run down the barrier and into the inside of the door. Bypassing the dum-dum seal all together.
Still not sure why my door holds some water until its opened. (when parked nose up in the driveway) I checked the drain holes from the inside and they are both perfectly clear.
Too many of these things leaking to blame it on previous repairs.... The only ones that don't leak are the ones that are parked in a garage all the time.
If mine start leaking again I may just try to add a flap of plastic and make like a "shingle" that lays inside the door frame and lets the water run down the barrier and into the inside of the door. Bypassing the dum-dum seal all together.
Still not sure why my door holds some water until its opened. (when parked nose up in the driveway) I checked the drain holes from the inside and they are both perfectly clear.
DanQ -
Does your door hold water, or is there water on the door sill when you open the door? It is a common misconception that water in the doorsill is a blocked drainplug. In reality, water on the doorsill means water is running down the inside of the door onto your sill.
I agree there could be a better design, but I think you'd be surprised how many times people have been "inside the back doors". Have you upgraded your audio system? Then you qualify. Remember, all that is required to be "inside the back door" is that you have taken the interior trim panel off to change speakers, fix a squeaky window, adjust a rear door shade, etc.
Anyway, the solution is simple: Take off the interior panel as well as the rubber-ish membrane. Remove the existing mastic, replace with new mastic, and re-seal. No more leaks...
d-
Does your door hold water, or is there water on the door sill when you open the door? It is a common misconception that water in the doorsill is a blocked drainplug. In reality, water on the doorsill means water is running down the inside of the door onto your sill.
I agree there could be a better design, but I think you'd be surprised how many times people have been "inside the back doors". Have you upgraded your audio system? Then you qualify. Remember, all that is required to be "inside the back door" is that you have taken the interior trim panel off to change speakers, fix a squeaky window, adjust a rear door shade, etc.
Anyway, the solution is simple: Take off the interior panel as well as the rubber-ish membrane. Remove the existing mastic, replace with new mastic, and re-seal. No more leaks...
d-
Leaky M5 door here as well...
I have an 02 M5 with a right rear leaky door. I noticed it for the first time last night after a severe rain storm. I happened to be getting a new windshield in my car today (after a rock kicked up from a truck had cracked it) and my friend who owns a repair shop took a hose and ran water over the top edge of the door(while closed) and after 30 seconds or so you could actually see the water welling up inside running over the door seal and down on the carpet. He also suggested the weather barrier was not sealed all the way. I made an appointment with my BMW dealer but after reading this thread I may take a shot at it myself and save a few hundred bucks! Oh, yeah, I also had my gas tank replaced last week after a pipe kicked up under my car and went right through the tank... Almost up it flames. Good thing the tank was full.., :dunno: Bad things come in "3"s, right?
I have an 02 M5 with a right rear leaky door. I noticed it for the first time last night after a severe rain storm. I happened to be getting a new windshield in my car today (after a rock kicked up from a truck had cracked it) and my friend who owns a repair shop took a hose and ran water over the top edge of the door(while closed) and after 30 seconds or so you could actually see the water welling up inside running over the door seal and down on the carpet. He also suggested the weather barrier was not sealed all the way. I made an appointment with my BMW dealer but after reading this thread I may take a shot at it myself and save a few hundred bucks! Oh, yeah, I also had my gas tank replaced last week after a pipe kicked up under my car and went right through the tank... Almost up it flames. Good thing the tank was full.., :dunno: Bad things come in "3"s, right?
Since bad things do come in threes, I'll remind you to be careful when removing your interior door trim. If you twist while lifting it up you can crack your wood trim. Ask me how many doors it took me to figure that out (if anyone out there is selling Bruyere trim, please PM me!).
Seriously, there is nothing to fixing the leaking door, but you do need to make sure you get a good mastic. Reheating the existing mastic doesn't work, so I'd recommend BMW brand or anything else that is very very stick...
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Seriously, there is nothing to fixing the leaking door, but you do need to make sure you get a good mastic. Reheating the existing mastic doesn't work, so I'd recommend BMW brand or anything else that is very very stick...
d-
My car has started to leak a little water (not a whole lot) into the driver's side rear footwell. It's not "soggy," just damp to the touch after a heavy rain ... on those VERY few times we get rain in SoCal.
I have heard, but can't personally confirm, that when the rear seat airbags are activated (mine were at 1,200 miles) they remove the door panel or panels. If so, this could be the cause of the vapor barrier failure that so many of us are seeing.
I also notice that there is water trying to accumulate under the two rubber drain plugs on the M5 "doorsill," after washing the car ... as if the door clearance is so slight that the rubber seals the holes from draining when closed. But, since there is a seal running around the inside of the door frame that is topographically higher, I doubt that could be the cause of water on the carpets ... it only demonstrates that water is accumulating inside the door. (My car also sits with a slight upward bias to the front! Maybe the water is seeping through the inner panel clips, which I hadn't considered until now. The upward bias isn't enough for it to spill over the bottom of the inner door frame, it would eventually drain out through the front drain first.)
The real test, in my feeble old mind, is to remove the inside panel, close the door, spray a lot of water on the outer door seals and ... W A T C H ...
I also note, on close inspection, that the rubber that runs along the outside of the window at the bottom edge, is a little shorter than it needs to be ... shrinkage after 4 1/2 years, I reckon. Water running down the pillars would easily flow into the door through the gaps at either end ... filling the door rather quickly in a heavy downpour. And, the gaps are about twice the size of the drain hole ... basic physics, I guess.
My carpet dries out within a couple of hours, so I just put it upside down on the rear seat and it is dry (as is the floor carpet) by lunchtime ...
But being anal, it does bother me ...
I have heard, but can't personally confirm, that when the rear seat airbags are activated (mine were at 1,200 miles) they remove the door panel or panels. If so, this could be the cause of the vapor barrier failure that so many of us are seeing.
I also notice that there is water trying to accumulate under the two rubber drain plugs on the M5 "doorsill," after washing the car ... as if the door clearance is so slight that the rubber seals the holes from draining when closed. But, since there is a seal running around the inside of the door frame that is topographically higher, I doubt that could be the cause of water on the carpets ... it only demonstrates that water is accumulating inside the door. (My car also sits with a slight upward bias to the front! Maybe the water is seeping through the inner panel clips, which I hadn't considered until now. The upward bias isn't enough for it to spill over the bottom of the inner door frame, it would eventually drain out through the front drain first.)
The real test, in my feeble old mind, is to remove the inside panel, close the door, spray a lot of water on the outer door seals and ... W A T C H ...
I also note, on close inspection, that the rubber that runs along the outside of the window at the bottom edge, is a little shorter than it needs to be ... shrinkage after 4 1/2 years, I reckon. Water running down the pillars would easily flow into the door through the gaps at either end ... filling the door rather quickly in a heavy downpour. And, the gaps are about twice the size of the drain hole ... basic physics, I guess.
My carpet dries out within a couple of hours, so I just put it upside down on the rear seat and it is dry (as is the floor carpet) by lunchtime ...
But being anal, it does bother me ...
JClyMan -
I can't say as to whether or not they remove the interior panel when connecting the rear airbags (I would think they do to get the wires from inside the door to inside the car (but behind the trim).
Nevertheless, root cause of the problem is that the rubberish membrane is separated from the metal door it should be attached to with mastic. How it happens (I suspect old age may also cause the issue) is really irrelevant, in that it does, and it make the door leak.
You may not have noticed, but your interior trim is also wet. What happens is water (by design) runs down the window and into the door interior. From here it should either run down the inside of the door outer (ie. the inside of the sheetmetal you see from outside the car) to the bottom or down the inside of the rubber membrane, onto to the door inner (the sheetmetal to which the inside door trim mounts), and down to the bottom. When the membrane separates, however, the water runs from the membrane down the inside of door trim instead of onto the door inner sheetmetal. Once on the door trim it pools on the door sill (where it is nicely prevented from exiting the vehicle by the door seals) and backs up into the interior. In events of enough rain it will also come dripping out of the door light holes.
I can tell you with complete certainty that the problem is not that the door weep holes are blocked (look closely, there are on the very bottom of the door where it would be impossible to block them), but rather that the water never gets there in the first place.
On the next nice day I'll be taking my doors apart to fix this issue once and for all myself and will document the problem and the solution. The short version is that you need to remove the old mastic, apply new mastic, and then stay the heck away from the interior door seals
btw - I've already "fixed" the problem once by re-heating my existing mastic with a heat gun. This completely solved the problem for about 2 weeks until it let go again, thus the requirement for new mastic...
d-
I can't say as to whether or not they remove the interior panel when connecting the rear airbags (I would think they do to get the wires from inside the door to inside the car (but behind the trim).
Nevertheless, root cause of the problem is that the rubberish membrane is separated from the metal door it should be attached to with mastic. How it happens (I suspect old age may also cause the issue) is really irrelevant, in that it does, and it make the door leak.
You may not have noticed, but your interior trim is also wet. What happens is water (by design) runs down the window and into the door interior. From here it should either run down the inside of the door outer (ie. the inside of the sheetmetal you see from outside the car) to the bottom or down the inside of the rubber membrane, onto to the door inner (the sheetmetal to which the inside door trim mounts), and down to the bottom. When the membrane separates, however, the water runs from the membrane down the inside of door trim instead of onto the door inner sheetmetal. Once on the door trim it pools on the door sill (where it is nicely prevented from exiting the vehicle by the door seals) and backs up into the interior. In events of enough rain it will also come dripping out of the door light holes.
I can tell you with complete certainty that the problem is not that the door weep holes are blocked (look closely, there are on the very bottom of the door where it would be impossible to block them), but rather that the water never gets there in the first place.
On the next nice day I'll be taking my doors apart to fix this issue once and for all myself and will document the problem and the solution. The short version is that you need to remove the old mastic, apply new mastic, and then stay the heck away from the interior door seals
btw - I've already "fixed" the problem once by re-heating my existing mastic with a heat gun. This completely solved the problem for about 2 weeks until it let go again, thus the requirement for new mastic...
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