Guidance on thermostat issues? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Ello Beastie!! · 23rd June 2007, 02:04

Hello everyone!!!

I was one of those lurkers before, but now that I finally took the plunge and officially own an E39 M5, I've decided to register and post.

2001 M5, Carbon Black with non-extended black leather sport seats, titanium trim, electric rear shade and manual side shades, M audio package w/ enhanced bass (which is responsible for all the bass rattles), and front and rear PDC (which don't work...have to replace a rear corner sensor).

There is no better way to start posting, then by attaching a picture. So the attached picture is my new beastie...

Ok...so I need some advice.

I'll start with the small issue...

My rear PDC..i did some research on here, and found that one of the rear sensors were NOT making a clicking noise, so it is bad. Easy.

My front PDC...I don't get it. Do you have to click the PDC button to activate it? Whenever i click hte PDC button, the damn thing BEEPS long and loud, and the light blinks...and that's about it. Does one dead sensor in the rear make the whole system inoperative? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Now...on to the bigger matter...

THE STORY....

First and foremost...the dealership i bought the car at is screwing me around. The thermostat seemed fine when I test drove the car, and seemed fine for most of my drive back home. However, later that night (close to midnight), i took the car out for another drive and found that the car simply would not warm up. The coolant temp needle would get to the first white dot between the blue and 12 o'clock position, but no further. Once i stopped, flipped on hte AC, and let the car idle for a while...the car would approach the 12 o'clock position, but not quite. Once i'im on the highway again...the needle would drop...not into the blue..but to the first white dot btw. the blue and 12.

I know first hand...as i've owned two E36s...one that had a stuck-open thermostat. I tell the dealer what was going on...tell tem that the thermostat is stuck open and that I would like to know when the inspection was made prior to sale, and whether i can see a copy of their full inspection report.

They tell me "uh-uh...car was not a CPO...it was sold as-is with no warranty" and i tell them that i understand what they mean by that, but I would like an inspection report.

They proceed by telling me to bring the car back...I pay $160 for a diagnosis so they can confirm the problem. Clearly, a proper inspection was NOT made, as they refused to provide me with the documentation.

I asked to speak to a supervisor...I explain to hte supervisor what is wrong...he proceeds by apologizing kindly, and telling me to come in the following day...and agreed to fix the thermostat on his dime.

The next day, I bring the car in...the supervisor goes back on his word. He tells me that there is nothing wrong with my car. That S62 motors are designed to run cool...he proceeds to bring his "master technician" over...his tech guy tells me "oh yeah...all of these new M cars...they will run cool on the highway...as long as the coolant temp is between the two dots (one btw blue and 12 o'clock and one between the red and 12) the car is fine.

Additionally...they tell me that since there is no check engine light, that they refuse to even inspect the car on their dime. They offer out that i pay 160 to have them run diagnosis, and if they find thermostat is broken, then they parts and labor...i still pay diagnosis.

Being that they think it's "normal" for an S62 to NOT run 12 o'clock dead center coolant temp reading...makes me unwilling to have them touch the car.

What to do....what to do???

QUESTIONS...

How true is it...that a thermostat being stuck open will trigger a check engine light or service engine soon light?

Who here on the forum has an S62 that will run cool, with coolant temp gauge reading 11 o'clcok, especially on the highway?

Who here has a dead on-center coolant temp reading that always stays at 12 o'clock once fully warmed up?

I need suggestions on how to go about dealing with these guys.

They are feeding me BS..and I want to report them to BMW NA for their misconduct and failure to give accurate information on proper engine performance measure, as well as false advertising a full 100 + point inspection as a selling point on the car, when it clearly had not been performed.

Any of your thoughts and opinions will be greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance.

Also...It's good to be a poster, and not a lurker.

mottati · 23rd June 2007, 02:38

i don't think there's anything from a legal standpoint that says a dealer has to inspect a used car, so i don't think you have much to go on there.

On a cool day, on the highway, the coolant temp gauge will be around 11 oclock on the gauge, a little to the left of the center. They are correct, an s62 will usually not run at 12 o clock dead center unless it's pretty warm outside.

Search the board for instructions on 'how to unlock the obc' and go to test 7 (i think it's 7, it reads KTEMP), if your driving for a while, at speed, and the temp is much below 79C, either the thermostat is not closing, or the coolant temp sensor is bad.

Yes, a stuck open thermostat can trigger an ses light.

Ello Beastie!! · 23rd June 2007, 02:44

thanks mottati...

I'll def. try unlocking the OBC to check for actual temp.

If the coolant temp sensor is bad...it would make sense.

I called around to other service specialists.

I am hearing the S62s should alwasy be 12 o'clock top-dead-center once it has fully warmed up.

Judging by your post count, I won't question your words. So i guess i feeel like a ****** now...i thought i knew my bmws...

I guess the S62 is just a totally different monster? Excessively cooled?

mottati · 23rd June 2007, 02:49

Hey, i asked the same question when i first got my car (if you care to search, circa summer 2003). The S62 thermostat is set to open at 79 degrees celcius, which is fairly cool. On a hot summer day, the gauge will be at 12 oclock, try pushing it on the track on a hot day and it will creep up toward the 3/4 mark, as will the oil temp. I think bmw went for a lower temp to add some cushion for when it's hot and someone is being enthusiastic with the car.
Unlike most bmw's our temp gauges do move around a bit, and we have a oil water heat exchanger, so you can also keep an eye on oil temp. If the thermostat sticks open, it will take much longer for the oil to warm up.

And welcome to the board!

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ello Beastie!!

thanks mottati...

I'll def. try unlocking the OBC to check for actual temp.

If the coolant temp sensor is bad...it would make sense.

I called around to other service specialists.

I am hearing the S62s should alwasy be 12 o'clock top-dead-center once it has fully warmed up.

Judging by your post count, I won't question your words. So i guess i feeel like a ****** now...i thought i knew my bmws...

I guess the S62 is just a totally different monster? Excessively cooled?

Ello Beastie!! · 23rd June 2007, 03:00

Thank you for the kind welcome!!

And thanks for the thorough explanation!!

chowdah · 23rd June 2007, 03:27

In my case, I went in for a valve cover gasket, and the //M tech (not your regular tech) said my thermostat was a bit cool, so w/o an SES light, they suggested I replace it.

Mind you I'm still under factory warranty, and that prior to this I had showed them a used oil analysis that represented a rich condition, which we were trying to explain (thermostat being one possibility).

After this replacement, I'd say the car did seem to warm up a tad faster, but the 11a/noon needle pointing attitude didn't change much. This was in springtime, FYI.

I've enclosed a stopped and moving picture of my gauge. Can't help you with PDC - don't have it. Welcome to the Board. I like the stash of oil in your picture.

Ello Beastie!! · 23rd June 2007, 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowdah

In my case, I went in for a valve cover gasket, and the //M tech (not your regular tech) said my thermostat was a bit cool, so w/o an SES light, they suggested I replace it.

Mind you I'm still under factory warranty, and that prior to this I had showed them a used oil analysis that represented a rich condition, which we were trying to explain (thermostat being one possibility).

After this replacement, I'd say the car did seem to warm up a tad faster, but the 11a/noon needle pointing attitude didn't change much. This was in springtime, FYI.

I've enclosed a stopped and moving picture of my gauge. Can't help you with PDC - don't have it. Welcome to the Board. I like the stash of oil in your picture.

Thanks for the welcome and the input!

Yeah...I may just rip out the thermostat, waterpump, and revampe the cooling system altogether in the next couple months. I really have no clue when the last coolant flush was done anyhow.

Hehe...good eye. I had a stash of over 30 quarts of Mobil 1 15w50 for my outgoing E36 m3...people have been telling me to use only 10w-60 in this motor, and 10w-60 ONLY.

Would u say the 15w-50 would work fine in the S62? I don't see why not...especially being that many S62s were willed with 5w-30 in hte beginning.

jclyman · 23rd June 2007, 03:59

Regarding the coolant. I've had my 2003 since new and the coolant has never been hotter than straight up (12 o'clock) ... I have driven it hard in 117 degree weather (over 100 MPH) and it was still in the center ... but MOST of the time it is to the left of center with about a needle width between the center mark and the actual needle. When the car is warm it has never been as low as the quarter mark. When I get into traffic it goes up to the center mark.

Regarding PDC. Make sure there is nothing within 2 feet of either bumper and nothing within 2 feet of the sides of the bumpers. When you first engage the PDC (by button or backing up) it will make a short steady sound (I think, but am not sure), but the sound will sound like it is coming from the rear if the rear bumper is about to hit something and it will come from the front (under the dashboard somewhere) if the front bumper is close to an object. Within one foot it becomes a steady sound (front or rear).

There's not much I can tell you about your dealer ... I have plenty to choose from and I have tried a few ... their service seems to go with the key guys ... if they move, service goes to he!! and you have to find those guys again.

Welcome aboard.

Regarding oil. There should be a sticker (green with yellow writing) near the radiator that specifies the BMW recommended oil. (10w-60 BMW syn. for early cars, and 5w-30 BMW syn. for later cars). You will get different opinions here, but they are just that ... individual opinions. I would go with what the sticker says. Sell your oil to a neighbor.

By the way, I have 62,000 miles on the car, drive it like it was stolen, and it has never thrown a code.

Ello Beastie!! · 23rd June 2007, 04:12

Drive it like it's stolen...LOL!!

Thanks for the welcome and input.

Well...i'm not using 5w-30...that'll burn like nothing else. I guess i'll have to get a stock-pile of 10w-60.

Thanks!!

jclyman · 23rd June 2007, 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ello Beastie!!

Drive it like it's stolen...LOL!!

Well...i'm not using 5w-30...that'll burn like nothing else. I guess i'll have to get a stock-pile of 10w-60.

Thanks!!

The comment about driving like it was stolen was coined by someone else here (and, I can't remember who) and I liked it, too, so with apologies I adopted it.

And I would use BMW 10w-60 for your car. Call around, I found out that dealers set their own prices for parts.