Some of us have read Whatheheck's(Dan) debacle with his SS Headers install issue where his installer can't fit the primaries (4 to 1) to the collector since it just won't fit. And from what I read, his installer first tried to grind off the jethot coating and eventually machine the outside of each pipes and inside of the collector pipe.
Now onto my story, I'm also having the SS Headers installed and to date my car has been on the lift since Wed.(02/28/07). My indy mechanic has installed numerous SS Headers on an M5 and several other BMW's and is also an Authorized Supersprint Installer.
The problem he's seeing is somewhat similar to Dan's issue where the pipes won't fit into the collector and this is the first time he's seen this. I stopped by the shop yesterday and shared Dan's install story and said to me that he won't try to grind or machine the collector or pipes since there isn't much metal in there to start off and doing it just to make them fit will put the longevity of the product in question.
His solution which he initiated last Friday as soon as he saw that it won't fit was to contact SuperSprint directly and send them pictures showing that it won't fit. I just got a call from my mechanic and he got an update from Supersprint that they'll be shipping him another collector which should fit into the pipes properly. They'll be shipping the collectors directly from Italy and hopefully we'll get it by Thursday(3/8/07) this week.
I'm NOT SURE if this is an isolated QC problem or if there's a bad batch that have been shipped to the U.S.by SuperSprint, but one thing I'm sure of is that the unit they sent for my car is not up to spec.
So just as an FYI for anyone who's planning on getting the SS Headers, the lesson learned here is to have the units test fitted first before attempting to dismantle the OEM headers from the car.
So just as an FYI for anyone who's planning on getting the SS Headers, the lesson learned here is to have the units test fitted first before attempting to dismantle the OEM headers from the car.
So just as an FYI for anyone who's planning on getting the SS Headers, the lesson learned here is to have the units test fitted first before attempting to dismantle the OEM headers from the car.
But how do you test fit them without removing the OEM ones first? Anyway, based on what a local Tubi installer told me, the odd QC issue isn't that uncommon with both Tubi and Supersprint. The craftsmanship is there on the build/weld quality but sometimes you've got to remember it's from Italy, not Germany. :M5thumbs:
Interesting, when I had mine installed last fall, my indy took off a little of the jet hot so that it would fit. But I wonder if the problem is slowly getting worse? hmmm
But how do you test fit them without removing the OEM ones first? Anyway, based on what a local Tubi installer told me, the odd QC issue isn't that uncommon with both Tubi and Supersprint. The craftsmanship is there on the build/weld quality but sometimes you've got to remember it's from Italy, not Germany. :M5thumbs:
Sorry if I didn't state it clearly, when I say test fit I mean test fit that the pipes will fit into the collectors...
The issue here is with connecting the pipes with the (4 to 1) collector and this can be done off the car and will save the installer and owner a lot of time and money.
Test fitting it even makes more sense before deciding to get the headers jet hot coated since if you find the issue after having it coated there's no more option of returning it since the warranty is already voided.
Well as long as the installer is aware of what to look and check for then you should be okay. The fitment issue is really minor if you detect it before starting the work.
My situation is kind of a nuisance since the car is up on lift with the OEM headers and exhaust on the ground and undriveable... my shop is taking in some loss due to the lift being tied up with my car until the correct or fixed collector arrives for installation.
But please keep us posted so we'll know if there's really a bad batch or it's really just an isolated case.
Dan,
Jon was a big help in the SS GB we did over the summer and did a few installs from that. They know what they are doing and will know what to look for....
You'll love it. What else have you done? Should we start planning what the next mod will be?:biggrin:
You're welcome. It will be a different beast when you get that back. We'll be doing more meets in the near future for a little coffee and canyon run. Much smaller group and maybe less publicized.
We can talk about suspension and tires then:grinyes: PM Laidback and I when its all done and we'll go driving:flag:
g
Great suggestion Eugene. I highly recommend this as well. In fact, I mentioned the same thing to another M5 buddy of mine (Cosioboy) who is having his SS headers installed soon too.
Per Tino, his headers already arrived, he did a fit check of the tubes on his SS headers and he could not get all the tubes to fit with ease either. So, perhaps inconsistent build quality is the issue.
So you folks check yours first. My understanding is, the pipes should be a tight fit but it should all go in to the collector tube without the need for sanding or pounding it with a dead blow hammer.
TQ2K said:
So just as an FYI for anyone who's planning on getting the SS Headers, the lesson learned here is to have the units test fitted first before attempting to dismantle the OEM headers from the car.
+1 jumping on the wagon as my experience has been referenced here.
Thanks to both members whatheheck and TQ2K to point out to me their fitment issues, I tried hand assembling my headers at home, only to discover the same problem - the individual 8 primary tubes were just impossible to 'slip-fit' into the collector (however the connecting cat-downpipes could slip with ease). I contacted my seller and have recieved the highest level of communication, service, and resolution I have been accustomed to recieving from his outfit on a regular basis.
Supersprint North America is aware of my issue and it seems they too have been working expeditiously on getting me a new set of collectors from Italy. Unfortunately it is likely they will not arrive in time for my install appointment, but at least my car won't be sitting on the lift for days.
As to why this bad 'batch' of headers that at least 3 of us here on this board have been given - who knows. I tend to think this batch was made the day after Italy won the World Cup and the Grappa alcohol content into the assemly line workers blood stream was above legally 'tolerable' levels. :1:
Supersprint Sponsor - another question for you: my connecting downpipes indicate fitment for Z8 (as per the stamp), are they identical to the E39 fitment? The collectors and individual pipes do indicate E39 M5 on them. Thx
Thanks, Bart. Looong overdue, glad I finally pulled the trigger on this coveted mod.
This was the first one we have heard of. What happened is the primaries were very tight into the collector. For some reason on this pair of collectors the 4 small receptacle tubes were not expanded enough to allow the primaries to slip in easily. Naturally trying to slip in a group of 4 primary tubes, with the pieces assemble on the car would make things impossible. Once we determined where the problem was, collector or primary tubing O.D. Italy then fedexed a set of collectors earlier this week. Unfortunately when a car is on the lift even Fed Ex is not fast enough.
To avoid this, every installer should open the package and slip each of the primaries into the collector tube as a test fit, before taking the car apart. You don't need to assemble the complete header. Just slip the pipes into the collector. We do this on every muffler, resonator, connecting pipe, etc. that has an expanded slip joint. It's just easier to deal with on the work bench rather than on the car. This also catches any issues where tubing ends are damages in freight. The fit should be a slip fit . Tolerance should be a .3mm to .4mm size difference between the outside of the primary and the expanded inside of the collector stub tube. This fit check process should be performed just in case a tube or the collector got whacked in shipping, leaving the tube dinged or out of round. Also always check the ends of the collector pipes and make sure there are no burrs that will create a problem with slipping on the seals. Thermal coating is another issues. We do not recommend thermal coating, however if you choose to have it applied you will need to test fit to make sure the coating did not build up inside the collector, or on the outside of the primary tube. Although the coating is not very thick, the thickness does vary depending on how much was applied in a specific spot. If both surfaced, O.D. of the primary, and I.D. of the collect the space that allows the slip will be gone.
I spoke with the head of engineering at SuperSprint for about 45 minutes this morning. Although this is an isolated situation their goal is to eliminate this in the future. Currently they fit check each 10th sets of a production run. In the future Supersprint will modify the jig to accept a mock up set of collectors so that they can quick fit each collector after it is welded, this avoid problems that may occur during the heating of the collector during welding. Once we receive the items here in the U.S. we will install a sticker on the outside of the package that will recommend " fit checking the primaries before disassembling the vehicle".
Once we receive the items here in the U.S. we will install a sticker on the outside of the package that will recommend " fit checking the primaries before disassembling the vehicle".
Nice to see an official explanation from a Supersprint NA representative!
Not sure if this is Anthony but I did get a return call from him stating the same explanation and hope to hear from him about the status of when the "fixed" collector pipe would arrive.
- My shop finally got the "Up To Spec" SS collectors which had been tested by Supersprint NA prior to shipping to my shop. The new collectors has now been installed and connected to the primaries.
And the best part is I finally get to have my beast back tomorrow (03/13/07) afternoon after 10 days on the lift.
That's funny my installer was commenting on the Italians workmanship after there lunch break too... cherrsagai I'll drink to that....Luckly my collectors fit fine just had to modify one connecting pipe.. I guess one was done before lunch and other was done after lunch..:dunno:
I had to opportunity to meet Eugene today at Bimmerworks. Glad to see that you had your problem resolved. When you left the car definitely sounded bad to the bone. All I was there for was a short shifter. I wish I could have gotten the exhaust................ :-(
The exhaust note is intoxicating!!! The beast is just growling every chance it gets.... So tough to describe it in words, I feel like I just need to drive right now and just skip sleep...
During the drive home I got 5 thumbs up from other drivers who obviuosly approves the growl of the beast.
The exhaust note is intoxicating!!! The beast is just growling every chance it gets.... So tough to describe it in words, I feel like I just need to drive right now and just skip sleep...
During the drive home I got 5 thumbs up from other drivers who obviuosly approves the growl of the beast.
Congrats, Eugene! I look forward to joining the 'smile' club myself. If all goes well, I should have my new collectors in a few days. I have the same exhaust setup as you, so the sound nirvana should be quite the same. mmmmmm
Can folks who have replaced the gaskets while doing headers please confirm these are the correct part #s (items 3 and 4)?
I normally take the company shuttle to work everyday but today was an exception. The sound system provided by the engine and exhaust was awesome.
And for your question, I verified on the receipt for my install that (3) #3 and (1) #4 OEM gaskets was used as part of the SS Headers install. My mechanic even changed the bolts, he probably saw something with the old ones which is why he decided to replace them.
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