Interest in Twin Turbo M5? - Page 31

ccm241 · 28th November 2007, 01:55

I must say that for all you skeptics out there Chris (and HPF) certainly deserves our upmost respect for the way he has kept us posted... I cant wait to see/ hear/ and hopefully feel the results!

mrrammstein · 28th November 2007, 04:28

not sure if anyone saw my previous post - but HPF is a stand up shop and a big name in the Supra community - I have dealt with them on many occasions and each time they handled things in a very professional manner

these guys don't cut corners and do a quality job!! they are here to stay - I'm definitely going to be on the M5 turbo kit list

maybe even an M3 turbo in the mean time lol!!

robertdn · 29th November 2007, 19:26

Put me on the interested list!

Price range that is interesting for me is 15-20k, for outputs in the 600hp range. Somewhat sceptical to reliable 800hp's setups, as i use this as my daily driver.

Para · 29th November 2007, 23:08

Extreme MotorSports SD is now a dealer/installer for all HPF products. Feel free to contact us for additional information or installation quotes.

jimmyz2 · 1st February 2008, 03:31

It has been awhile.Any updates?And what are you going to do to keep the S62 reliable under turbo boost?Are you going to offer a fully built motor like D/A does from the start?highboostingm3,please no cheer leading antics that you always post over at the other forum,thank-you.I just want a honest and straight forward response.And for the record,HPF has awesome hardware quality,it is just that every master BMW tech I talk to thinks,Kaboom..

wilsodh · 1st February 2008, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyz2

HPF has awesome hardware quality,it is just that every master BMW tech I talk to thinks,Kaboom..

Hey Jimmy, bet you might get a different response from Noe, Master Tech/Supervisor at San Diego BMW... he built my engine for D/A.

But the question is a good one... what is the margin of ruggedness when pushing boost through a 'stock' S62? Not too many data points out there beyond S3 specifications. I know of at least two failures with FI/stock engines. One was with my car when it was in Bahrain (prior to the D/A build). My feeling is >10 lbs with stock internals is asking for trouble.

Cheers
Dave

HPF Chris · 1st February 2008, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyz2

It has been awhile.Any updates?And what are you going to do to keep the S62 reliable under turbo boost?Are you going to offer a fully built motor like D/A does from the start?highboostingm3,please no cheer leading antics that you always post over at the other forum,thank-you.I just want a honest and straight forward response.And for the record,HPF has awesome hardware quality,it is just that every master BMW tech I talk to thinks,Kaboom..

We will probably not offer a fully built motor because the E39 M5 engine has enough displacement to make a safe and reliable 800rwhp. We have plenty of E46 M3 turbo systems on stock engines driving around, laying the law down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUkhYizKvQw. We even turned one of our customer's stage 2 kits (on a bone stock engine) up to 724rwhp - 599ftlbs (at 22psi) to prove the reliability of the stock engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdmLoBDmrPI

The quality of the E39 M5 systems will be very similar to our E46 M3 turbo systems. Once we move along further in our development process, I would like to help sponsor and promote this forum. But for now we have dual development going on, our M3 Stage 3 turbo kits, and our M5 twin turbo and NA kits (which we hope to unveil at Bimmerfest).

Here's a sneak peak of the M5 engine... (3rd pic has our velocity stacks)

wilsodh · 1st February 2008, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Chris

We will probably not offer a fully built motor because the E39 M5 engine has enough displacement to make a safe and reliable 800rwhp.

Thanks for the pix Chris, and I'm looking forward to seeing the project progress.

But...

If I did my calculations correctly, 800 rwhp will require ~20lbs of boost.

You seem to be extrapolating from your e46 experience.

20lbs of boost jammed into the thin-walled, flexible S62 is not something I'd lay money down on for reliability.

Best of luck.

Dave

HPF Chris · 1st February 2008, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsodh

Thanks for the pix Chris, and I'm looking forward to seeing the project progress.

But...

If I did my calculations correctly, 800 rwhp will require ~20lbs of boost.

You seem to be extrapolating from your e46 experience.

20lbs of boost jammed into the thin-walled, flexible S62 is not something I'd lay money down on for reliability.

Best of luck.

Dave

There are a lot of things that factor into the psi vs hp equation, turbo sizing being the most important. We're most likely going to release a kit at around the same power as the E46 M3 which will be roughly 600-700rwhp. We're excited that with the slightly lower compression and 40% greater displacement that the pump gas numbers will be significantly higher. We're also incorporating our methanol kits into this project as well.

People used to say the same thing, "Kaboom" about our M3 turbo kits 1.5 years ago. 500rwhp was the magic number for Kaboom back then. Then we made 600rwhp, then 667rwhp, then 724rwhp, and we could probably turn it up to 800rwhp with a larger turbo on stock internals if we want. If we didn't spend a lot of time and money engineering these products people may still believe the theoretical limits of their engines are far less than what they really are.

We will take the guesswork out of the equation for everyone and spend the time and money to push these M5's far past what release the "production" kits at. That's what we did with our M3's, and there haven't been any "kaboom's".

Take care,
Chris.

wilsodh · 1st February 2008, 20:38

Don't get me wrong Chris, I'm not among the naysayer crowd fond of spouting 'kaboom' to FI initiatives. I'm fortunate to have the amazing fruits of a brazen FI S62 project is sitting in my garage (unhappily, due to snow

). But along the way, there were some painful failures.

You don't need me to suggest that it is more than just about turbo size and controlling detonation with a methanol kit. The thin-walled, aluminum S62 is a bit of a different animal than the cast iron S54 that HPF has been successful with. BMW made the S54B32 out of iron specifically to confer rigidity. It is not surprising to me that this block can take a lot of boost.

I would trust that HPF will take care to test their prototypes thoroughly. It would be most helpful and appreciated if, like one of our other board members who experimented with a FI S62 project, you could post what failures may be encountered in prototype testing.

Dave