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Old 14th June 2007, 08:59   #231
highboostingm3m5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsodh View Post
I could be wrong, but if memory serves, Blue Thunder has a pix. He has since had his s/c'd beast sleaved.

Dave
Thanks!

So...did you ever get an explanation as to why DA chose to sleeve your block? I was told that I am assuming too much with this. It is true that I have never built a V8 motor for boost so I have no technical knowledgen from experience on the subject. That is why I am asking for help from someone who does or had it explained via someone who does.
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Old 15th June 2007, 01:47   #232
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Originally Posted by highboostingm3m5 View Post
Thanks!

So...did you ever get an explanation as to why DA chose to sleeve your block? I was told that I am assuming too much with this. It is true that I have never built a V8 motor for boost so I have no technical knowledgen from experience on the subject. That is why I am asking for help from someone who does or had it explained via someone who does.
Hey Cameron,

DA sleaves the blocks out of concern about the ruggedness of the Alusil coated bores to the abuse of high pressure FI. In an early, pre-sleave iteration, they had the Alusil bored out and the cylinders coated with NiCom. NiCom is supposed to have greater temperature and abrasion ruggedness than Alusil. After assembling the engine, it was quickly found that the NiCom lining was not compatible with the high tension rings, and at that point Darten agreed to machine the interlocking sleaves.

Can an S62 with stock internals withstand high boost? Dunno.. seems like a pretty expensive gamble.

The first pix below is Blue Thunder's original engine with a cracked cylinder and broken piston. He since went with sleaves and forged pistons in a new block for his s/c set up. As you may know, there have been several forged piston failures with higher boost S62 set ups. As a result, DA now uses custom ceramic coated forged pistons, and these have held up well with zero problems.

The second pix below may not be related, but it was the pix I was originally thinking was Blue Thunder's engine. It is from a member who I think had a head gasket failure.

You might drop Bill a PM... I'd bet he'd be happy to share his experiences and thoughts with you... he loves to talk cars!

Dave
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Old 15th June 2007, 08:59   #233
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Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcellent!

Thank you very much for the information! Going to pass this along to the bf.c fi thread as well.

Since HPF has the amazing AEM guru tuner in their side pocket...they might just pull it off but only time will tell. I am eager to find out!
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Old 15th June 2007, 17:01   #234
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Originally Posted by highboostingm3m5 View Post
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcellent!

Thank you very much for the information! Going to pass this along to the bf.c fi thread as well.

Since HPF has the amazing AEM guru tuner in their side pocket...they might just pull it off but only time will tell. I am eager to find out!
Hey Cam.. glad to help. I'm all for pushing the envelope! I'm no expert, but given the S62 failures we've seen to date, the OEM pistons would definitely worry me if someone were to slap on twin turbos and attempt 1000hp on stock internals. Maybe the aem guru could do it and even get off some dyno runs to impress the bf crowd, but I'd wonder about the wisdom of such a lopsided set up... seems like you'd have to be very careful and it would be asking for trouble. The cost of a broken engine could have initially gone into strengthening the internals with components designed to take such abuse. But hey, its only money right?!

Btw, who is this 'aem guru' you keep referencing?

Dave
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Old 16th June 2007, 05:43   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsodh View Post
Hey Cam.. glad to help. I'm all for pushing the envelope! I'm no expert, but given the S62 failures we've seen to date, the OEM pistons would definitely worry me if someone were to slap on twin turbos and attempt 1000hp on stock internals. Maybe the aem guru could do it and even get off some dyno runs to impress the bf crowd, but I'd wonder about the wisdom of such a lopsided set up... seems like you'd have to be very careful and it would be asking for trouble. The cost of a broken engine could have initially gone into strengthening the internals with components designed to take such abuse. But hey, its only money right?!
True story. They might have a goal of 800whp but that could turn into a much lower number if somethign catostrophic happens. Time will tell. Yeah...tell me about the money thing. My money pit keeps getting deeper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsodh View Post
Btw, who is this 'aem guru' you keep referencing?

Dave
Well HPF hasn't mentioned who it is but this is what they did mention:

This is on topic because a lot of this or all of this will probably bethe same regarding the e39 M5 turbo system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HorsepowerFreak View Post
#1) people running with our turbo kits have exactly the same components. Exactly the same turbo manifolds, piping, turbo's, wastegates, wastegate springs, intercoolers, intercooler dimensions, piping dimensions, intake manifolds, boost control solenoids, map sensors, intake air temp sensors, downpipes, electronics, the same motor, etc. As each and every car will have the same components, the only variations will be climate, altitude, barometric pressure, temperature etc. The tune we provide will work with each and every car.
#2) The person that designed and built the ECU, and tuned this exact setup is the same guy that built 80% of AEM's EMS applications, and did nearly 100% of the calibrations on those EMS's. He also trained and certified most o f the AEM tuners in the country. He is the one that set up this kit to run flawlessly in this car, and I wouldn't trust anyone else to tune an unknown kit in my BMW.
#3) This engine management system runs on our own version of software that provides enhanced capabilities for the dual vanos and drive by wire. Nobody else knows how to program this engine management system and I have no intention of training people so they can attempt to improve on what has already been done.
#4) Effective factory driveability tuning is arguably 1,000 times harder to do than power tuning. Most of the stand alone vehicles I've ridden or driven do not drive like they were intented from the factory. Ours does. Only the best of the best tuners can take driveability tuning to the level of a factory tune and that is what everyone that purchases this kit will get.
#5) Our EMS datalogs everything that occurs in the vehicle. In fact, for drivability tuning, we drive the car around for days, then unplug the ECU and tune the ECU in our offices off the datalog. That is the only way to effectively tune every part of the every map, every temperature, every gear, startup hot and cold, various engine loads, accell and decel fueling, tip in, etc. etc. etc. There are nearly 10,000 individual parameters that need to be set and there aren't very many optimal configurations. The onboard datalogging also enables a customer to overnight his EMS to us, have us diagnose the problem, fix it and overnight it back.
#6) Each kit comes with a keyed race fuel switch that instantly recalibrates the EMS to target much more boost, advanced timing and provide a safe 100rwhp increase in power when race fuel is used. This mitigates the need for a driver to bring along a laptop and custom tunes when they go to the track as a simple key switch will switch the tune for them.
#7) We have tuned this car and the knock noise table to provide a safe and reliable 750hp on race fuel and 600hp on pump gas. This requires many things to be set up optimally, and requires tuning on lesser grades of fuel and adding knock protection to ensure someone who loans their M3 to their friend who puts a poor grade of fuel in the car and gives it back doesn't end up ruining the engine.
#8) We have pushed the limits of this engine and feel that 600rwhp (750hp) is safe with race fuel. We know the car can be pushed further and for those we will be providing a stage 2 and stage 3.
We have invested 1.5 years and an "enormous" amount of money in this kit. We are talking about 750hp on a stock 3.2L NA motor and stock exhaust. If anyone has done this on a stock NA M3 motor, please chime in. Without knowing anything about our kit and the engine management system, to assume that a customer could optimize and improve what we've done is not an option I feel worth considering at this point. To that end, and the 8 points I mentioned above, I highly doubt an owner of this kit will be complaining.
Take care,
Chris.
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Old 16th June 2007, 10:27   #236
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I'll read through more of these posts Sunday.

Until then, here's some news....

We took our turbo'd M3 out to the track for the first time tonight. Before hand I did around 20 launches in our parking lot to adjust the KW coilovers, however the 19" wheels and tires were very hard to launch with (especially at this poorly prepped track). I made 6 passes, one of which was an 11.66 @ 129mph. This was as 12psi (610rwhp - 762hp). I turned the boost up a bit more to 13.5psi (640rwhp - 800hp), and the clutch said no more. On the 11.66 pass, I hit 8500rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear and 8400rpm in 4th. I felt like I was shifting at 7,000rpm but it pulls so quickly and so strong through each gear that I didn't realize this until we looked at the datalog. This triggered fuel cut each time which slowed the car down a bit. On the last pull we turned the boost up and I was going to shift early and hope for a lower 11 but the clutch couldn't take any more abuse.
We're going to come back next time with drag radials on 15" wheels and turn the 2.0 60ft into a 1.5 60ft. We hope to plant this car solidly into the 10's as soon as the wheels are made.
Here's a video of the 11.66 @ 129mph pass... HPF750 M3 vs Nitroused C5 Vette


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Old 16th June 2007, 16:06   #237
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Turbo Power

That is amazing an amazing performance Congratulations

If you can transfer the technology you have in this M3 to the M5 and get equivalent performance, you will be swamped by orders from people wanting to buy it!

This also begs the question of when you are going to offer the turbo M3 package for sale?

Ray
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Old 16th June 2007, 16:24   #238
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Very well done! Thank you for the video! I can't wait to see the next video with DRs on 15" rims! 129mph is right around where that car with Dynojet whp should be trapping. Looking good!
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This also begs the question of when you are going to offer the turbo M3 package for sale?

Ray
They are installing the kit on a customer's car right now and it should be done in July. There is a list but Chris can tell how soon a kit can be installed once someone ships their e46 M3 to his shop in Oregon.
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Old 17th June 2007, 02:12   #239
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Very nice! I can't wait to see how it pulls with proper drag wheels/tires...
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Old 17th June 2007, 03:54   #240
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Imagine this setup except two 60-1 turbos or larger on an M5!

I hope you pull it off HPF! Keep up the good work on the M3. Can't wait to see a slip after launching on full slicks!
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