Dave is an installer, affording him real world experience supreriority to a REP. God knows, reps generally don't know JACK. Brembo apparently trains better than some other Manufacturers that are sold through sales representation channels. Technically that is, people skills are obviously left to the SR.
To correct, the topic of the thread is Which BBK, not Brembo.
Why would an installer have more "real world experience" than a Rep???
Personaly I would give Dave MUCH more credit than simply being an installer. I am just curious as to why you think that someone in that position deserves more credit that the person who is around the products day in and day out?
I will agree that we here at RaceTechnologies are much better trained than what you would expect from many companies. Thank you for that. Even the women in this building have all installed brake kits and all have had some sort of track time and real world experience with the products. We make it a point that anyone who answers the phone also be capable of answering technical questions, even if their position is simply accounting.
Would you take your Porsche, Ferrari or even your BMW to an independent mechanic??
-Are you serious? Have you EVER been to a BMW Dealership service center? I've started taking my still-in-warranty M5 to BMS ("my" independant shop) for smaller warranty repairs because I'd rather pay out of pocket than risk having my car scratched or dinged or otherwise mishandled by dealership employees. I don't own a Posche, but from what I hear from a few friends who do, Porsche dealerships are even worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelieveIt
If you knew he was skipping a critical step in a repair process because he thought it was unnecessary, would you allow him to continue that job???
-You mean like removing a CDV? (I'll explain that one if you don't get it)
As to using non-OEM repair methods, a good example are the M5 thrust strut bushings. They wear out quickly and crack under heat/loading during track conditions. One remedy for this is to switch to X5 bushings, although it is unclear as to how much longer they last. What we discovered when my M5 was at BMS is that the "correct" factory allignment (for either bushing) is contrary to how it should be alligned to absorb braking forces. So we decided to install the X5 bushings backwards on my car. After three track days and two group drives (a few thousand normal miles) they still look new (no cracks). In the "correct" configuration the bushings would have be cracked after one hard track day.
The moral of this story is that sometimes a very observant and talented tuner can fix problems with or upgrade an OEM design. In my experience, most good tuners/racers know more about the OEM products than the OEM representatives - who sell them, know all the bullet points and catalogue codes, but can't match the hands-on experience of the tuners.
2007 Z4 M Coupe, Titanium Silver with Imola Red, black and silver interior -for details: www.mymcoupe.com
2003 M5, Imola Red with black and silver interior
-Dinan S2 drivetrain
-Dinan stage 3 suspension with JRZ shocks
-StopTech brakes
-Rogue Engineering short shift kit and clutch stop
-275/35R18 Michellins f/r on 18x9.5 BBS RS-GTs
-Progressive window tint
-Euro dash and armrest conversions
-CDT/Total audio, NavTv w/ DVD
-Seat massagers
2002 540iT, Sapphire Black with black and red interior
-Dinan S2 drivetrain
-Dinan stage 3 suspension with Koni shocks
-StopTech brakes
-255/40R18 PS2s f/r on 18x8.5 BBS RG-Rs
-Progressive window tint
-Euro dash and armrest conversions
-Custom interior trim and seat massagers
-NavTv with DVD
I am just curious as to why you think that someone in that position deserves more credit that the person who is around the products day in and day out? .
I would think the person who actually uses, installs, and services the product would be more knowledgable than the person sitting in a warehouse with the product on the shelf. You don't gain product knowledge by osmosis. Real world experience is tough to beat.
Mike
__________________
Mike
91 M5 Alpine White II, Silver Gray 3/90 production
17x8/17x9 M system with PS2, 20mm touring roll bar; Ground Control Coilovers; Confortti Chip, CD43; bmw/nardi blackline steering wheel, 3.8 Cam Gears
08 535i / 6 speed
Space Gray; Gray; Sport/Premium/Nav
00 M5 Ti Silver; Imola/black sportiv --Sold
Engine:
Supersprint Headers, Dinan CAI kit and MAFS, Throttle Bodies, Cams, Ported heads, Exhaust, Custom dinan software, Evosport Pullies, Dinan clutch and lightened flywheel; Ignition solutions plasma coils
Suspension:
Dinan Stage 3 with front and rear Strut Tower Braces, Beastpower Sway bar brackets, Dinan Wheels with 275/285 PilotSport, X5 Thrust arm bushings, Stoptech 355mm 4 piston front, 355mm 2 piston rear brake kit, Dinan 3.45 diff
Interior/Misc:
Eurodash, updated steering wheel, Bluetooth retrofit, Sirius Retrofit, hardwired V1, Widescreen Mk4 nav, M audio retrofit, Ice Link, BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade, bmw towbar
Last edited by mottati; 6th January 2007 at 03:10.
I would think the person who actually uses, installs, and services the product would be more knowledgable than the person sitting in a warehouse with the product on the shelf. You don't gain product knowledge by osmosis. Real world experience is tough to beat.
Mike
Does that qualify them to be able to speak on behalf of the design and development of the product?
Or the engineering and manufacturing processes?
How about making references for competing products in which they are not properly trained or authorized to do so??
Editied to correct spelling***
Last edited by M5fanLurking; 6th January 2007 at 03:27.
I would think the person who actually uses, installs, and services the product would be more knowledgable than the person sitting in a warehouse with the product on the shelf. You don't gain product knowledge by osmosis. Real world experience is tough to beat.
Mike
WOW, He gave us that one. That's how reps think.
NO, your traingn DOES NOT give you what installing product after product, on many different cars, for many years. Tunnel vision from a single products use/installation is what has shaped the thread from your end.
Partyline competitive selling/camparison propaganda "training" is not the same as grease. Granted, poor experiences with a manufacturer, or more common in my business, poor relations/dealings with rep firms can keep you from "sparing the rod" in these situations, obviously some of that has gone on between Dave and you.
__________________
Jason
'01 Titanium Silver Metallic/Silverstone Extended
Ex-mod Queen, now back to Stock!
Does that qualify them to be able to speak on behalf of the design and development of the product?
Or the engineering and manufacturing processes?
-Yes. Not on behalf of the manufacturing company, but they can speak to the design, development, materials, and real-world experience - in some cases with more clarity than someone with less experience pushing the product to, or beyond, it's limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5fanLurking
How about making references for competing products in which they are not properly trained or authorized to do so??
-Duh What they can offer is insight into why they choose to recommend a certain manufacture's product over another's. The "why" is invariably more important than the "what".
With all the BBK knowledge flying around here, can you guys tell me which BBK's will fit under stock rims? I'm planning on putting the rear wheels up front like Laidbacknags did, with 3mm spacers. I thought I heard that Stoptech won't fit, and that Brembo will. Is that true, or will Stoptech fit under stock rims? Maybe asked and answered already, but I have to skip a lot of bickering to get the answer.
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Mark
2002 E39 Lemans Blue M5
Black interior, Rear fog lights, hardwired V1
With all the BBK knowledge flying around here, can you guys tell me which BBK's will fit under stock rims? I'm planning on putting the rear wheels up front like Laidbacknags did, with 3mm spacers. I thought I heard that Stoptech won't fit, and that Brembo will. Is that true, or will Stoptech fit under stock rims? Maybe asked and answered already, but I have to skip a lot of bickering to get the answer.
-I've got StopTechs under mine (I know, I'm running BBS now, but I had them under my stock wheels), but I don't recall which size they are. Dave Z can tell you though.
Last edited by palantirion; 6th January 2007 at 03:47.
-Are you serious? Have you EVER been to a BMW Dealership service center? I've started taking my still-in-warranty M5 to BMS ("my" independant shop) for smaller warranty repairs because I'd rather pay out of pocket than risk having my car scratched or dinged or otherwise mishandled by dealership employees. I don't own a Posche, but from what I hear from a few friends who do, Porsche dealerships are even worse.
.
glad to see its the same the other side of the pond as it is here, i use one indy and thats it, main dealers are awful.
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2001 M5 Fully loaded. Anthracite with silverstone interior.
SS Manifolds/Headers with thermal lagging, SS Racing Cats, SS 'X' pipe, Eisenmann race exhaust 83mm tips, Actice Autowerke Cold Air Induction (CAI) + brake cooling duct system, Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers, Eibach anti roll bars, Powerflex bushes, Tarox BBK (12F/10R piston's) DOT 5.1, BP sway bar brackets, SPEC stage 3+ lightened clutch / flywheel, RE octane short shift + WSR, RE Tranny mounts, Strong strut, Hamann front splitter, Hamann fog covers, ACS 3pc boot spoiler, ACS roof spoiler, SSDD CCFL's, SSDD carbon rear diffuser, Laser jammer, BBS LM's 19x8.5/19x10 wrapped in PS2's, MK4 Nav/V28, Origin B2, Driftbox, Tints, Remapped and De-restricted.
TO COME, VORSTEINER GTR BONNET, ACS REAR DIFFUSER
Mechanical parts Supplied by CA-AUTO
Mechanical parts fitted by Brystone - Southampton http://www.youtube.com/v/YAyuuZ5n8x8
(I'll explain that one if you don't get it)
Linear Mode
