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Old 18th August 2001, 06:16   #1
stever
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notes from Steve Dinan's discussion at Sears Point

Dinan has modified and maintained my BMW's for nearly 25 years. In my experience he builds engines that will last (2 for me) and his claimed dyno numbers seem to relate to on-the-road performance. I've got stage III suspension and 3.45 gears which made an enormous difference to my M5

He's also got the only independent service organization I've seen that has grown to significant size without quality going to hell. Steve (and his wife) are also in business to make money -- you can't grow and fund development if you aren't profitable.

I'm not going to dwell on Steve's discussion of why all of the quickie dyno numbers are bullshit, drag of cold fluids and stabilization of underhood temperatures are a discussion in itself. He can document the 30hp rear wheel differences people are seeing.

The good news -- 100 octane gas is worth 15-20 hp. This is a really cost-effective modification.
The bad news -- our California re-formulated gas will cost 5-10hp.

Big power, big bucks: the exhaust manifold is being tooled now and will probably be available in 3 months. It will be expensive (?) and take 16! hours to install (and if you have to pull the engine later for any reason presumably another 16 hours). Per Dinan's very expensive Ricardo software, the exhaust manifold is the major limitation on naturally aspirated power and combined with exhaust, larger throttle bodies, intake trumpets, and a raised intake plenum there's 448hp at 6500 RPM (and no loss at the low end). With the addition of new intake cams, and accessory underdrive he's still on target for 460+hp naturally aspirated.

No 24hp for airbox insulation?! When I talked to Steve late last year, he thought heat soak of the airbox was a significant factor. After testing, he concludes that the major contribution is reversion thru the intake and insulating the air box is a waste of time.

Why not 500 or 515hp? According to the Ricardo program, 500hp requires bigger valves and ports (don't forget, the heads and headers are the same as the 540). Dinan's labor and fabrication costs (Northern California is VERY expensive even today) are very high and he doesn't think enough people will pay $20K+ for 500hp to justify his investment. He can get 500hp cheaper with a supercharger.

The supercharger is still under development, but it looks like 100+hp on it's own (at $15k+) which can be added on top of all the naturally aspirated mods to get 560+hp.

So maybe some of the German 500hp claims are possible - if they're really doing the head work and providing exhaust manifolds - the quoted prices at today's exchange rate should allow that.

I've got to say that after Sears Point, it's clear that I've got to be a lot better driver before I can do anything with more power.
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Old 18th August 2001, 07:55   #2
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Thanks for the summary! Good info here.

--Dan

PS: I think a lot of us could use more skill than power. Power's the easier way to go faster, though.
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Old 18th August 2001, 12:36   #3
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A couple of months ago there was a post here on Steve Dinan running for president. Did he have anything to say about his political ambitions?

Regards/Robert
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Old 18th August 2001, 13:39   #4
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Steve,

Thanks for filling us in on what Steve Dinan is up to with the M5. Sounds exciting!
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Old 18th August 2001, 15:49   #5
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Sounds like you got the same impression of Steve as I did. Very smart man.
I don't understand why so many people give him grief.
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Old 18th August 2001, 19:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkM5Lauderdale
Sounds like you got the same impression of Steve as I did. Very smart man.
I don't understand why so many people give him grief.
Maybe because some of us treat him as a god and other tuners as crap?

If he is so smart, why did it take him more than one and a half yea to get where Kellners Sport already was quite a while ago, not to mentione Novack?

Anyway, 560hp with his engine kit and a supercharger is not bad.

Cheers,
/Johan
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Old 18th August 2001, 20:00   #7
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Re: notes from Steve Dinan's discussion at Sears Point

Quote:
Originally posted by stever
...The good news -- 100 octane gas is worth 15-20 hp. This is a really cost-effective modification.
The bad news -- our California re-formulated gas will cost 5-10hp...
Really? I'm going to fill the beast up with some 100 octane racing fuel and have FUN this weekend.

Later,
Kenneth
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Old 18th August 2001, 20:01   #8
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stever,

You didn't mention anything about ECU remapping.

There is no way he will get +60hp without some new SW for the ECU, since the ECU will have to be remapped to take advantage of new cams, intake, manifold, etc. Without remapping you may even se a decrease in power.

Regarding race fuel, will a stock M5 get 15-20hp extra just by using race fuel?
Too bad it's so extremly expensive over here.

Can you please be a little more explicit on the dyno stuff?
Was 30hp difference refering to different dynos, cars, time of dyno, etc?

Cheers,
/Johan
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Old 18th August 2001, 21:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by johann


Maybe because some of us treat him as a god and other tuners as crap?

If he is so smart, why did it take him more than one and a half yea to get where Kellners Sport already was quite a while ago, not to mentione Novack?

Anyway, 560hp with his engine kit and a supercharger is not bad.

Cheers,
/Johan
Johan,
Your right some people appear to treat him as a god. But given the lack of alternatives on this side of the pond, he is the most ambitious and reliable.
Nowack and others in Europe had their M5's well before the U.S. and don't have the same regulations to deal with. (In fact, I don't know what regulations they are forced to comply with whether they are more difficult or not) So relying on previous work is not a safe option given you still have to change to meet a U.S. standard. And boy can our politicians come up with some strange standards!
I do envy your choices over there Johan. I wish we actually had the competition over here to bring down the prices.
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Old 18th August 2001, 22:08   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkM5Lauderdale


Johan,
Your right some people appear to treat him as a god. But given the lack of alternatives on this side of the pond, he is the most ambitious and reliable.
Nowack and others in Europe had their M5's well before the U.S. and don't have the same regulations to deal with. (In fact, I don't know what regulations they are forced to comply with whether they are more difficult or not) So relying on previous work is not a safe option given you still have to change to meet a U.S. standard. And boy can our politicians come up with some strange standards!
I do envy your choices over there Johan. I wish we actually had the competition over here to bring down the prices.
I really think we have the same regualtions for a lot of stuff such as emissions, then again some may differ which makes relying on prior work difficult.

We have the same kind of politicians over here, believe me!
Nothing i as good for prices as some healthy competition in conjunction with good supply!

You wouldn't believe me if I told you what we are paing for a lot of stuff over such as jeans, shoes, polo shirts, food, drinks, american cars, Hifi and Home theatre equipment, etc.
Then again some important stuff such as mods for our loved cars are cheaper, at least in Germany.

Cheers,
/Johan
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