Question regarding purchase of CPO 2003 M5? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

nicegsxr · 11th October 2006, 00:02

Hello all, I got a question for the gurus again. I just bought a CPO 03 M5 last night from a Sterling BMW in Newport Beach CA. My problem is, well my own stupidity in a way for buying a car at night, this morning when it was bright and shine, I started to notice all the little chips and dents on the car, now I called my saleperson and told him about the dents and he said yar no problem they will get a dentless repair guy to fix it. But as for the little scratches and chips, I noticed a few of them actually was to the metal and little signs of rust was showing, I read the CPO certification process, for chips or scratches thats deep to the metal, arent they suppose to repair that instead of just using touch up or buffing it out??, but in their case neither was performed since i can see the rust and bare metal spots. Can I ask the dealer to repair the scratches or chips thats deep into the metal??? Please advise, or am I out of luck even though I just purchased the vehicle last night, I just feel kinda ripped when I paid 51k out the door for a car thats obviously not up to my expectations bodywise? Thanks in advance.

jester5675 · 11th October 2006, 00:53

Congrats on the new car !!! i myself just got a 2003 carbon black 03 - CPO'd with only4K on her...luckily the body on mine is perfect- not a scratch/chip on her- pretty much brand new...< and no its not a driving school car...just was garged and kept like a baby for 3 years !> so here is a few links describing the CPO list and requirements> not sure if this will help or not -

http://www.bmwofbeverlyhills.com/Certified-Program.aspx

http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/6...0/cpocklst.pdf

- goodluck !

jester5675

93 e34 M5
03 e39 M5

nicegsxr · 11th October 2006, 01:00

Wow grats on your car with 4k miles!! And thanks for the links, I am going to be at the dealers again tonight, I guess I jsut try to see if there is anythng they are willing to do for me.

wilsodh · 11th October 2006, 01:13

Ouch. Do you have a return clause in your purchase paperwork? Whether you do or not, you will have the most leverage now, so I'd pursue this aggressively. I'm surprised to hear of the presence of rust, especially in SoCal. These sound like rather severe rock dings. I would not tolerate rusty dings on a 3 yr old $51k car for one minute...

Good luck,
Dave

ard · 11th October 2006, 02:38

Was the cpo just performed? Once a car is cpo'd it retains the cpo status- this dealer may never have done a thing.

if it was freshly cpod it is a violation of the BMW CPO terms- you need to get BMWNA involved quick and document these flaws- take pictures, bring it to a very reputable shop, etc so they cannot claim it was good when they looked at it.

Why would you buy a car with no PPI, no daylight viewing, etc??? 47k pre tax? Did you run a carfax at least?

You saw the pdf link for the cpo checklist, correct? Ask to see that document with the inspection data completed.

Good luck

Adam

jclyman · 11th October 2006, 02:40

Sad that a dealer would sell a car like that ... no further comments, as I am sure you will hear them ALL pretty dam* soon.

Check with Kevin Hite at Sterling ... he always seemed like a straight shooter to me, and he has supported the BMW club for years ...

Good luck ...

Oh, A (ard) is right, all of his suggestions should have been followed ...

Beamer_usa · 11th October 2006, 06:27

Pursue aggressively, and contact BMWNA if necessary. I would act quickly, you probably would have the most leverage within the first 30 days of purchase. Well at least that is how it is here in CT. Anyway Good Luck and keep us posted with the result.

nicegsxr · 11th October 2006, 07:12

Thanks all for all the input, well as for me being an idiot buying at night time was, because I am just too over anxious in getting a beast of my own, I was disappointed at all the private party vehicles and decided to just spend more and go CPO. When I saw that car on the internet, I just drove straight to the dealer from work and when I got there it was dark so I just test drove the vehicle and the engine felt strong and the silver paint under crappy lights looks relally good. So basically I felt I was just going to put an end to almost 4 weeks of searching for the right vehicle and driving all over just to be disappointed. I didnt think the dealer would be selling a vehicle that has so much little scratches here and there. Anyhow I went to the dealer tonight and my SA advise that I come back next wedsnedays when the dent repair guy is there and they will try to fix all my problems that I am seeing. I will take picture before and after, and ask for all CPO docs just in case I do need to purse this with BMWNA. I mean I like the sales guy's attitude, we just have to see how flexible they are going to be when I return next week. Would it be too much for me to ask for a repaint of for example the hood and trunk area which has basically the most scratches and chips?? Or would touch up paint be sufficient on a CPO vehicle>?? This is my first CPO, so I have nothing to go on. Thanks in advance.

Hawkwind · 11th October 2006, 08:20

Not sure how big those chips and dents are, but chips are normal if you're driving on SoCal freeways often, unless you leave a couple of hundred yards of space in front, and then you'd never get where you're going. I don't think there's anything in CPO that says they need to fix those chips, or small dents. But rust would be a problem that should be corrected. Seems like if the dent guy is good at touch up painting, he might be able to correct most or all of the problems. Good luck.

wilsodh · 11th October 2006, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicegsxr

Would it be too much for me to ask for a repaint of for example the hood and trunk area which has basically the most scratches and chips?? Or would touch up paint be sufficient on a CPO vehicle>?? This is my first CPO, so I have nothing to go on. Thanks in advance.

On the CPO checklist, there is a section called "Body Condition, Fit and Finish". The CPO "certification" for this is that the various body sections, including the hood and the front bumper, meet "BMW Guidelines and Standards". On this point, I would question if the presence of rock gouges and surface rust meet the intent of this certification. You might hear that the 'finish' portion refers to paint quality rather than normal insults from road debris. There is also a comments section on the CPO checklist with each body part. It would be of interest to see what comments were made. You might also inquire as to what exactly are the BMW 'guidelines and standards' for body condition, fit and finish. In the end, this may be a goodwill situation. If you are unhappy with what the dent repair can do, you might pursue a respray. Polite aggressiveness/persistance could be key. Be prepared to hear that rock chips are normal. Your argument would be that a low mileage '03 you paid a premium for should not be exhibiting severe rock chips and these should have been pointed out prior to sale given the circumstances of the transaction.

Good luck,
Dave

ard · 11th October 2006, 08:28

Next week?
The dent guy is not going to fix scratches...

Resign yourself to living with this- if you have a chit chat with an SA at night and agree to a vague "come back next week" there is zero liklihood this will every get resolved. They know they will be able to shine you on forever.

Me? We'd be having a meeting tomorrow a 9AM in the GMs office to review the CPO documents and determine how to prevent BMWNA from getting involved.

Second time: Did you look at the pdf of the CPO checklist? Do a search.

There are two things you should know:
1. Talking with people will not get you anywhere. This will be a document driven issue. The CPO document, the body shop inspection, the letter to BMWNA, etc...

2. Do not believe that BMW will be on your side.

They are not going to be upset with scratches, they will not be embarrased at selling you this car... they will claim you should have inspected it. The ONLY recourse is if it fails to meet the CPO inspection guidelines. GET THESE TOMORROW- and not at night when they are "in a locked office, we can get them next week"

Good luck- take control...or just forget it.

A

PS I will add that the CPO checklist clearly differentiates chips based on depth of chip and any rust. Any rust MUST be refinished (touch up is not refinishing in my book)...

nicegsxr · 11th October 2006, 08:49

Thanks again all for all the input. I am going to try to get him to fax me the CPO Checklist tomorrow. And yes I did read the pdf of the CPO checklist and for me I just thought that if there are little chips here and there at least all i should be seeing is touchup paint all over, and not be able to actually find a chip spot clearly down to the metal and some sort of rust going on. Since the dealership is next to the beach I am assuming its just the rust from the humdiity since the time the car was at the lot. Anyhow, maybe I am just too picky.. either way I am going to see what happens tomorrow.. Thanks again for all your inputs.

Also, the chips and dings are not limited to the front and rear of the vehicle, which is why i was kinda picky, it was on the doors, and the top of the trunk as well.