Frustration with my M5!!!! - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

EvilM5 · 10th October 2006, 22:10

Active Autowerke has had my car now since Friday Oct 6, 2006. As you guys may know, my M5 is feeling weak on power. I did the WOT test for the MAFs that DavidS recommends and have readings of 90 - 95 at 7k Rpms. I replaced my MAFs with some from DavidS but the problem still persists. So I took in to Active. Well, unfortunately they find absolutely nothing wrong with the car. They said that they have checked for the Air/Fuel mixture and everything is fine. Rechecked the Programming that they installed (I have Britalman Exhaust, AA CAI, and AA Programming), checked the readings from the MAFs, and compared those to readings of brand new ones they even installed. Checked the O2 sensors. Nothing...Zip...Nada ... they say the car is running it should be. They are now going to put it on the DYNO and check the readings to see what kind of power it is putting at the ground. They are also gong to run a Compression and Leak test on the engine and also going to check the backpressure on the exhaust (maybe a cat is clogged up). Of Coarse, all these test that they are now going to run is after I have insisted and insisted that there is something wrong. Who knows, maybe I just have the weakest M5 out of the entire production line that runs 14.4 @ 98 mph

Can somebody shine some light on this issue ... As you can tell I am very very disappointed on my M5, and have almost convinced myself of getting rid of it if indeed this car is running as it is supposed to. Thanks in advance.

Carlos H. Arbucias

Nabio · 10th October 2006, 22:29

What kind of MPG do you get according to the OBC?

TiSiBeast · 10th October 2006, 22:43

I wouldn't get too upset yet - wait until you get the dyno numbers back. That will give you the real story. Make sure when they dyno it that you get humidity and temperature readings.

wilsodh · 10th October 2006, 23:04

Sounds like they are doing the right tests. I assume you've driven other M5's and have a basis of comparison?

Dave

EvilM5 · 11th October 2006, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsodh

Sounds like they are doing the right tests. I assume you've driven other M5's and have a basis of comparison?

Dave

Yes, I've test driven other M5 and the "butt dyno" reads that they are stronger. Does anybody know how "accurate" is the WOT to 7k RPM test. Does it always suppose to read 140 L/H at 7K? I told Active about this "test" and they assure me that test No. 4 on the "Test Menu" from the dash is nothing more than the data that the car uses to compute the MPG average. obviously it makes sense the computer would use such date to compute the MPG, but I think that he is missing the bigger point that it may have to do with fuel delivery and ultimately the AIR/FUEL mixture. If this "test" to 7k rpms holds water, then it means that there is something wrong and I just have to keep digging deeper to find the problem. Otherwise, what Active is saying is true and it makes no point for me to have them keep running tests on the car, to simply find out that the car IS running fine and I am simply chasing my own tail. What do you guys think?

Does it truly mean that I have a problem with my car if the WOT test with engine warm in Test No 04 is reading only 90 -95 L/H at 7k RPM ???

Thanks in advance.

Not-so-EVILM5

TiSiBeast · 11th October 2006, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilM5

Yes, I've test driven other M5 and the "butt dyno" reads that they are stronger. Does anybody know how "accurate" is the WOT to 7k RPM test. Does it always suppose to read 140 L/H at 7K? I told Active about this "test" and they assure me that test No. 4 on the "Test Menu" from the dash is nothing more than the data that the car uses to compute the MPG average. obviously it makes sense the computer would use such date to compute the MPG, but I think that he is missing the bigger point that it may have to do with fuel delivery and ultimately the AIR/FUEL mixture. If this "test" to 7k rpms holds water, then it means that there is something wrong and I just have to keep digging deeper to find the problem. Otherwise, what Active is saying is true and it makes no point for me to have them keep running tests on the car, to simply find out that the car IS running fine and I am simply chasing my own tail. What do you guys think?

Does it truly mean that I have a problem with my car if the WOT test with engine warm in Test No 04 is reading only 90 -95 L/H at 7k RPM ???

Thanks in advance.

Not-so-EVILM5

I can tell you with certainty that I am around 130+ LPh on the test. I would say your most sure test would be a wheel dyno. It seems that the cars seem to come in somewhere between 300-330 WHP on the dyno test. If it's much below that I would think it would indicate an issue.

jcrist · 11th October 2006, 00:51

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but.....
My car read 331hp/330ftlb bone stock
ofter AA CAI and software I was at 325/310
I installed the headers and with the remapp from AA read a poutry 342hp and 14.1 air/fuel.
I have just emailed my runfiles from the dyno to Barry @AA. I am going to let them try to get this right as I have the $1k invested.
Mr_Bock had meager numbers from his modifications (too many to list) He was at 310. He worked with Powerchip on refining the tuning and got to 330. That about 8% right??? I fully expected to be in the mid 350's at the last dyno, if not better. AA agrees that the 2nd dyno (-5hp with CAI and software) are not acceptable and tried to make it clear that the CAI and sfotware "always make horsepower". We all know that the 3rd dyno numbers were horrifically lean, but they were in the low 13's o.n the 2nd, when I was down 5hp/10ftlb.

EvilM5 · 11th October 2006, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrist

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but.....
My car read 331hp/330ftlb bone stock
ofter AA CAI and software I was at 325/310
I installed the headers and with the remapp from AA read a poutry 342hp and 14.1 air/fuel.
I have just emailed my runfiles from the dyno to Barry @AA. I am going to let them try to get this right as I have the $1k invested.
Mr_Bock had meager numbers from his modifications (too many to list) He was at 310. He worked with Powerchip on refining the tuning and got to 330. That about 8% right??? I fully expected to be in the mid 350's at the last dyno, if not better. AA agrees that the 2nd dyno (-5hp with CAI and software) are not acceptable and tried to make it clear that the CAI and sfotware "always make horsepower". We all know that the 3rd dyno numbers were horrifically lean, but they were in the low 13's o.n the 2nd, when I was down 5hp/10ftlb.

Hmmm that is interesting ... tell me something, did you "feel" the car stronger after the CAI and software was installed? Or did you suspect that power was robbed from the get go? After I had the installation done for the AA CAI and Software, the car "felt" alot stronger than stock, and drove through out the day perfectly... on my way back home at night, car went into Limp Mode. Next moning I took it directly to Active and they said nothing was wrong... from there on, I have never felt the car as strong as the first time I picked it up.

EvilM5

gsfent · 11th October 2006, 02:51

Evil

Bring the car Saturday to the Boca GTG and we can do a MAF test. In this weather, anything approaching 130 is good. I will also bring my Peake code reader for anyone who wants to pull codes.
Regards,
Jerry

gsfent · 11th October 2006, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrist

I installed the headers and with the remapp from AA read a poutry 342hp and 14.1 air/fuel.

#'s vary from dyno to dyno, so don't get too hung up on comparing #'s across different dynos. You want to compare changes on the same dyno. I had 323 hp with PC software and Dinan CAI. After headers and Evosport UD pullies, and upgraded PC software, I went to 354. 31 hp change, that is the number you are looking for.

14 to 1 is way lean.. You are shooting for low to mid 12's, depending on weather. I live in south Florida so I want to make sure I have a little extra fuel. You might be a touch rich and leave 4 or 5 hp on the table (out of 350 or so, about 1%), but you will never worry about running it lean and hole a piston.
Regards,
Jerry

Laidback · 11th October 2006, 20:35

evilm5,
Have you tried running with another m5? if not try it with another beast and if possible the one with dyno result or the same setup as yours...goodluck...

EvilM5 · 11th October 2006, 23:12

Here is a quick update guys ... Active just called me and said that the car posted a 240 RWHP on the dyno

... it was running lean in the middle of the band (14s) but got a bit better at the top end (13s). They say that even with the AIR/FUEL this lean the car should AT LEAST be in the 305 RWHP range ... that is a 65 RWHP difference ... My initial reaction to Active ... "HAH!! I TOLD YOU THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG". two seconds later ... "Oh Sh**, this can prove to be a big problem with the car" ... They tested the backpressure from the exhaust and it is fine. Next they were going to try a compression and leak down test on the engine (hopefully there is nothing wrong!!) .. Now that they believe me that there is something wrong, I had to go through the story again of how this has happened and they think it might be an "electrical" problem (by this he means that he doubts it is a mechanical problem). Any thoughts on what the problem might be? Thanks ...

EvilM5