coolcarlski

Dude Don't worry the warranty will cover the repairs. What's the latest? When they fix it make sure you take care of the guy who took the report. I already had this whole experience.

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99 Estroil Blue M3 Stck
W202 AMG C55
95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 412awhp
94 M332i Modded, 3.2Lmotor ,TMS chip,24lb inj,CAi,3.23 LSD, Schrick cams,Euro HFM,Supersprint exh Euro headers back(SOLD)

wiggis

Actually, in my experience, you get good service from a dealership if you are prepared to work with the SA, and are not pricky about stuff. They are humans, and they usually respond well to a calm, well argued and logical case without threats. Just accept that sometimes you will have to put your hand in your pocket to pay for repairs, warranty or otherwise, and your expectations will be set right.

However, I have owned a number of BMW's, and I have to say, I have been treated with the most respect when I have taken in either a very new (< 2 years) car or an older (5 years +) car for work to be done. On those odd occassions where I've been in the middle ground (e.g. 4 year old 328i coupe sport), I've certainly been made to feel like a second class citizen, and a pain in the backside to get warranty work agreed. A lot depends on the dealership too - some seem very snobish when it comes to the age of the car you drive in to them, and others seem to almost have inverse snobbery (i.e. behave nicer towards owners of old cars). I suppose it depends on if they value new car sales or repeat business more.

I equally believe that the opaque rules (feels like a game of chance at times) laid out by BMW with respect to what is covered and what is not covered under the warranty (shadow line 'trim' corrosion on the rear windows anyone?), and the ludicrous parts prices (e.g. £9,795 + VAT for a new engine + 4 days of labour for fitting by BMW, nearly £300 for a CD changer, £750 for a new monitor, etc) must tempt people to be a little less than honest with what information they give to BMW. So 'my car feels down on power and I couldn't pass a 540i' is going to be preferable to 'my car only put down 300 bhp at the rear wheels on a dyno'. If parts and labour were reasonably priced, people would be more inclined to play fair.

Whatever you decide to do, just remember, it's not the lie that gets you, it's the cover up. My advice and experience is to be honest (my car feels down on power recently and much less powerful than my friends car - he said I should get the compression checked), but to then provide only the information asked for by the dealership (has the car been raced or used on a track = 'no'). You can always remember the truth, and you don't have to provide the whole truth.

As an example, recently I broke a headlight adjuster when replacing an indicator bulb. I bought the replacement part and fixed the adjuster. I was at BMW for some other work, and I asked them to please check and adjust the headlight aim. When asked why, I said 'because I broke an adjuster when changing the indicator bulb, and I fixed it but I have no means of adjusting it properly'.

Now I could have been a prick, and complained about the b*stard of a job it is to change the indicator bulbs, or the quality of the crappy brittle plastic the adjusters are made of, etc., and I could have stomped my feet like a 3-series owner and proclaimed myself a good customer without whom they would all be wearing sack cloth and ashes, and then I could have demanded they fix it or else I would be speaking to their manager, and then when I still didn't get my way, I could scream until I was sick, etc.. .... we've all seen it happen, and I'm sure I wouldn't last a full day as a SA before dressing down at least one prick in public.

As it was, on the basis of honesty and a good relationship, the SA smiled, congratulated me on fixing it, and it was checked and adjusted free of charge.

EvilM5

Thanks everyone for your support and replies ... I finally picked up the car from BMW yesterday. Unfortunately they find NOTHING wrong with the car. They did the "Smooth Test" and checked for codes and found nothing wrong. I pushed for them to do a Compression and Leak Down Test (by the way, according to them the CPO does not cover such test so I had to Pay for it, but they agreed that If they did find something wrong with the car, they would only charge half of the price. Anyhow they said that compression was around 220 which is fine and leak down was at 4%.

What I find odd is that Active told me that they read 150 in the compression test. Two things could be going on here, either Active is lying to me about the compression, or BMW only ran the compression on a few cylinders not all of them, and did not find the cylinder that has the low compression. Of course I am going to call Active on Monday to find out what Cylinder they found the low compression on. Anyways, the BMW tech told me that they care more about the results of the leak down test, rather than the results of the compression, that if there was a problem with compression, it would be picked up through the leak down test (this really made me think that they did not do the compression test). Anyways, I decided to pull the dyno results and show it to the tech. He tells me that he believes that the car is producing less power than the car should, but that none of the test that he has done show such a problem. He says that he is 100% sure that there is nothing wrog with the engine.

I simply asked him ... "If this was your M5, you feel that it is low in power, and you have proof that it is low in power, but every test that you do on the car shows that the car is perfect, what would you do ?" ... He told me that even though he would be as eager as I am to find the problem, he simply has nothing to substantiate that there is any wrong with the car. He explained that there is no point of me spending $2000 -$3000 on test on the car, when every test that he has done up to now shows that there is nothing wrong with the car. I even went as far as implying that maybe they sold me an M5 with a regular V8 not an E62, and he said that was impossible, that the engine on my car is the right one. Anyhow, he simply told me that he wished that he could give me a straight answer but that he did not have one. He simply recommended me to keep driving the car, and that if there is anything wrong with it, it would only get worse.

I also spoke with the Service Dept Manager and just recommended me to come back on Wednesday since a Mechanic from BMW NA would be there. He says that he is the guy that fixes the problems that they cant figure out. I am going to wait until then and see if that gets me anywhere. If it doesn't, It seems that I am going to have to get rid of my M5 ... I really hope that this matter gets resolved because I really do not feel like changing my car, but I am not going to stay with a car that is not functioning correctly.

EvilM5

Vindicator

When i read the post about the 150 score on the compression test it didn't seem to say it was one cylinder so i assumed it was 150 across the board. If that is what they got then there is something wrong with the way they did the test. Did they follow DavidS's compression test FAQ? M5's have a very specific way to compression test.

If you had a bent valve your engine would DEFINITELY run rough. If you had 150 in a cylinder it would most likely run rough as well.

Based on the leakdown test your engine looks great. 4% leakdown is an excellent number. Was 4% the highest out of all cylinders? Did they give you all the numbers for each cylinder?

When i bought my M5 i was getting around 760km per tank on the highway. I cleaned my MAFs and got a LOT of power back but now i can't get over 630km on the highway. I'm averaging 22.5mpg now highway and was getting 25-26 before if i remember correctly.

At this point i would say you need to start looking elsewhere since your engine looks like it's in great shape. As the SA said you could have a fuel delivery issue, fuel pump, clogged filter, fuel injectors etc. Lost off power can also be clogged cat, MAFs (obviously), O2s, bad air filters, CPS.

It sounds like it wasn't the MAFs or the O2's so how did the backpressure test turn out? With the new MAF's you are still getting 90-95 l/ph? If it is then you definitely have a air/fuel delivery problem. I bet you get great gas milage! What are you averaging?

EvilM5

Well, After installing the new MAfs I still get the 90 - 95 L/H. I have asked the actual Tech that worked on my car and he insists that If there was a problem with a bad fuel injector or a fuel delivery problem, it would come out on the Leak Down Test and on the "Smooth Test". He says that the Air/Fuel mixture is perfect. Unfortunately, I do not know if the 4% was accross the board or only the best cylinder reading. Anysways this is exactly the reason why I am so frustrated. I am still getting a 90-95 L/H reading at 7k Rpm, and I have proof that the M5 is making less HP than a stock one, but apparantely the car is running as it should. The only thkng that is keeping me sain in this whole saga is the Dyno results that I have and the 150 compression reading that Active may or may not have obtained. Other than that, I guess that my car is lucky that I live in South Florida and not near a mountain, because if I did, It would have already been at the bottom of a cliff. By the way, the backpressure test proved that there is no problem with the exhaust system at all. Also, I average about 17 Mpg in a 60% Hwy / 40% City. Of course, I drive like I own an M5, not a Corolla


EvilM5

PS - the other thing that the tech told me is that maybe the DME is bad, but that he would defenetly not get permission to replace it on just a hunch without having any tests results to back it up.

coolcarlski

I'm surprised that karl and the rest of the guys have not figured out the problem. Ask him about the CP test again and tell them the results u got from BMW. If it's not an engine problem it could very well be electronic. But I'm here speculating. I know changing the MAF made a huge difference on my AMG which are known to go defective.

__________________
99 Estroil Blue M3 Stck
W202 AMG C55
95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 412awhp
94 M332i Modded, 3.2Lmotor ,TMS chip,24lb inj,CAi,3.23 LSD, Schrick cams,Euro HFM,Supersprint exh Euro headers back(SOLD)

EvilM5

Well I spoke with Karl from Active on Friday afternoon. I told him of what BMW told me, and he simply told me that they were lying to me, that there is no way that the compression of the engine was 225. He told me that the guys at South Motors BMW were simply trying to give me the run around and that I should tell them to redo the test but in front of me so that I can be sure that the results that they are giving me are correct.

I opted not to take this stand against BMW. I prefered to show them the Dyno results and at least the tech seemed to be honest with me. Regardless, Karl told me that he would be willing to do another compression test, and also a leak down test as long as I am willing to pay for it. At this point I do not know if I want to take this route since I have paid for this test twice in the last week already.

EvilM5

coolcarlski

Yea dude,they're both putting you in a tough situation. First of all I would not have volunteered so much info to the dealer.The hell with that! All they had to know is that you've been driving the car and it feels down on power. Then you should have said either you compared it to another m5 or that you had AA chk it out. you're not being dishonest. I had a aftermarket warranty on my 95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. I had some light mods but took them off but read on. The motor had 36k miles on it and I started it one day and the rod blew a hole thru the blck. i was like WTF.#6k miles. I brought it back to Mitsu where I originally purchased the vehicle and upon inspection and talking to the warranty company the motor was replaced. problem: faulty oil pump. Cost the warranty co. 7k minus my 150.00 deductable. my point is u had a reputable BMW mechanic chk out your car. he said you have low CP in one cyl. Goto another dealer that honors your warranty or go back to the same one and tell them you want to see them give the car a CP test. better yet give me a call! I'll PM you my #. This is BS!

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99 Estroil Blue M3 Stck
W202 AMG C55
95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 412awhp
94 M332i Modded, 3.2Lmotor ,TMS chip,24lb inj,CAi,3.23 LSD, Schrick cams,Euro HFM,Supersprint exh Euro headers back(SOLD)

aaronmiles

Man I do feel sorry for you..... how far is it from AA and the dealer? Perhaps offer to pay the dealer 1-2 hours of labour for one of THEIR techs to come WITH YOU to AA and do the test again ???

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1999 Imola Red M5. Extended Caramel Interior
Mods on my pre-update beast:Eisenmann "Race" exhaust (76mm tips), 19" Hamann PG2's, AACAI, Clear Angel Eyes, MK4 Nav, GC's M5 Coilover kit w/front camber plates, Dinan Front and rear sway bars, D/A swaybar mounts, Dinan front and rear strut brace, Braided brake lines, Eibach 3mm wheel spacers, Rogue Engineering underdrive pulleys, IATS Relocation, Powerchip, Xenon foglights & Lower engine covers w/Brake duct cutout
2008 Volkswagen Golf GTI. The wifes new car
2005 Ford Territory Ghia. The wifes car. (Sold)
1986 Toyota Landcruiser HJ75. The farm ute.

AlLmItEeM5

u can try to contact nick g from technique tuning. he might be able to help you. pretty sure if he could help he wouldn't overcharge you like the dealership does. i'm pretty sure some of you might have heard or knows about nick g.