Go Back   The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com) > BMW M5, M5 Touring, M6 and Z8 Forums > E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion

E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th August 2001, 00:17   #1
Adam
Moderator
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South of England
Age: 24

Garage: R32

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Adam
Really excited my Pa and I are headed for Nurburgring!

We are headed for the Nurburgring in November and I am really excited...I was just wondering if Johann or Uncle Tom or Gustav could give me and my old man any tips on surviving the legendary ring...what to expect really and will Sabine be there....
ty for any response!
Adam is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 00:33   #2
johann
Administrator
 
johann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 40

Garage: BMW E39 M5, Carbon black

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via MSN to johann

Sounds like fun!

First of all check with this link that Nordschleife is open: http://www.nuerburgring.de/eng/frame_04.htm

Second, first time on the track, take it slow if you can.
May people have crashed in the first corner!

If possible, drive some laps with an instructor or someone else that knows the track well.

Don't try to keep up with other cars just becaus you know your car is faster, they may have driven thousands of laps on the Nordschleife.

If it rains drive with DSC on!

Check this kink for info on the Ringtaxi, if you're lucky you can go a lap with Sabine!

Don't foget to have fun, but I doubt anyone can forget that there!

Cheers,
/Johan
johann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 00:42   #3
Adam
Moderator
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South of England
Age: 24

Garage: R32

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Adam
Thank you for your response johann....how did your carbon black beauty hold up on the ring?Everything you expected?Because I have people have needed new suspension setups brakes etc...
Adam is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 00:53   #4
johann
Administrator
 
johann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 40

Garage: BMW E39 M5, Carbon black

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via MSN to johann

Adam,

Brakes and tires wear, but not worse than on any other track, more the other way around.

I've had a lot of problems with the support brackets for the rear anti-roll bar, they break after one lap!

Last time I drove all Saturday without rear anti-roll bar, the car did really understeer and yet the rear was very loose!
I could still go as fast as my record! Imagine what the time would have been with a working rear anti-roll bar.
This was before I had AC Schnizter DFC installed.

I had one really fast lap on Saturday with a working anti-roll bar, but I forgot to time that one, isn't that typical?

Cheers,
/Johan
johann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 01:07   #5
Adam
Moderator
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South of England
Age: 24

Garage: R32

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Adam
Hehehe yeah know the feeling!
Adam is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 01:13   #6
Ice M
Member, Sport: On DSC: Off
 
Ice M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Switzerland & Sausalito, CA

Garage: 2001 E39 Carbon Black

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Adam,

In addition to Johan's tips, my own experience with the Nordschleife :

1) This is probably the most difficult track in the world and it won't take you more than one lap to understand why it is a legendary layout and why you will have to respect it !

2) The best advice is to make a first lap as a passenger in a car driven by someone who knows well the track and all the traps (you'll see curves you've never seen on regular roads, you can trust me )

3) Always check your mirrors because there are very fast cars there and also bikes (accident between bikes and cars are rare but it may happen).

4) forget the idea to do your first laps if it's raining or if the track is wet because it is probably one of the best mean to scare you for a life time !

5) Take pictures and enjoy the 70 curves (I love the Karussel)

Just as a foretaste, Bergwerk where Nicky Lauda had his tragic accident with its F1 Ferrari in 1976


__________________
'01 Carbon Black M5
'01 Titanium Silver Z8

Last edited by Ice M; 17th August 2001 at 01:26.
Ice M is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 01:28   #7
Ice M
Member, Sport: On DSC: Off
 
Ice M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Switzerland & Sausalito, CA

Garage: 2001 E39 Carbon Black

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

In addition to my previous post, here are 5 useful rules for riding the ring. It is for bikers but I think it is also worth for cars drivers. You can find additionnal info at http://www.marvin.co.uk/benlovejoy/n...ing/index.html


The 'Five Rules'

Chief Ring instructor Hans Heinz Dilthey suggests that anyone riding at the Ring follow five rules. Ring instructor Jon Taylor was kind enough to email them to me and to obtain Hans' permission for me to publish them here. (Note that the rules are Han's and the words are Jon's.)



1. Realistic self-evaluation

Imagine three cartoons. On the first there is a rider leaning about ten degrees from vertical. In his thought-bubble you see him leaning like Mick Doohan, right on the limit. This rider, when he comes to a corner that is sharper than he initially thought, or needs to tighten his line, thinks I'm over as far as it's possible to lean and to lean any further would be impossible. So he straightens up and brakes in the corner, causing him to run wide and off the road / track. This is the most common scenario when riders run out of bends.

The next scenario is his brother. This time the cartoon shows the rider leaning as far as it's possible to lean and yet in his thought-bubble you see him leaning about ten degrees from vertical. In this case the rider's self-evaluation is that he has plenty of lean angle left, and when he comes to a corner that is sharper than he initially thought, or needs to tighten his line, he leans further -- but as he is already at his limit, he just levers the wheels off the ground and once again crashes out of the corner.

You then see a third character whose lean angle is about twenty degrees and his thought-bubble is about twenty degrees. When this rider comes to a corner that is sharper than he initially thought, or he needs to tighten his line, he knows exactly how much bank angle he has left, and just leans the bike over sufficiently to make the corner.

Obviously with the three diagrams portrayed this is very straightforward and obvious, however, to describe it in text is rather cumbersome. I hope you get the gist. The important point to put across is: Know your own limits and your safety margin and ride within them.

2. Ride relaxed

Sometimes easier said than done. Carry out relaxation exercises prior to setting off. Dynamically tension the major muscle groups, by holding first your fists tightly clenched for about ten seconds then relax; then doing the same, in sequence, with your shoulders, (raising them as if to close your ears) then clenching your buttocks tightly, then tightening your legs against the bike, then lifting your toes as if to touch your knees, and finally by tightening your face muscles tightly by screwing up your face; all for about ten seconds and then release.

Writing this down now it sounds absurd, but I suggest you try it out for yourself while sitting on the bike. I actually was introduced to this in 1986 and applied it to the start line when racing. I found it really worked for me. The few minutes spent lining up for the start of a race are about the most nerve racking of the whole race IMHO. When actually riding on any track, you cannot react to your best if you are tense. All this may sound trite but for me it works.

3. Separate line of view from bike

This refers to the need to separate the vision from the longitudinal axis of the machine. If you look at any GP / Superbike riders as they corner you will see their vision is towards the exit of the corner. Effectively, this results in the rider bringing the machine back in line with his vision as the corner straightens out. It also means that with his vision being to the exit of the bend, if the bike momentarily loses grip or gets out of hand, he is still mentally aiming towards the exit of the bend and therefore likely to continue in that direction.

All too often when a novice rider gets in too deep into a corner through misjudging the bend on the approach and entering at too great a speed, or if he momentarily loses grip in the corner, his vision comes down, he goes rigid, and the bike then tends to go in the direction he is looking, which is often towards the kitty litter or the armco. Separating your vision from the axis of your machine means you are less likely to freeze your concentration on the "enemy" (the outside of the corner, kitty litter, Armco, lamp post or brick wall etc) and therefore less likely to hit it. Keeping your vision to the exit of the bend tends to ensure that you eventually end up going that way.

It's like the house-brick lying in the road scenario: if you look at it, you are almost certain to hit it; if you look to one side of it, you will probably miss it.

4. Right rest at the right time

The body is like a battery. If it's just a little run down then a small re-charge will bring it back up to full capacity. If however it gets really run down it takes ages to become fully charged again.

When people think "Oh, I'll just have one more lap" all they really think about is the next four or five miles, they tend to forget just how long, exhausting and tiring the Ring is. Then, just as you are getting tired and your concentration is going (about two-thirds of the way round), you come to the most demanding part of the track (after Karrussel) so any tiredness here becomes a real problem.

If you are thinking "Just one more lap" that's the time to rest. The right kind of rest also plays a part. No cigarettes or coffee, plenty of mineral water but only light food, and plenty of stretching.

5. Mental training

This is the exercise shown in other publications such as the Keith Code book Twist of the Wrist (known as TIT or 'thinking it through'), where the rider memorises a certain track or piece of road, and goes through the mental process of riding along that track / road in a time similar to that which he rides it normally.

On a track like Brands this is not too difficult, but if you imagine doing it at the Ring, this takes tremendous circuit knowledge to get anywhere near your normal lap time. Normally the time is less than you actually take due to the fact that your knowledge of that track / road is not sufficient to accurately assess every feature / corner accurately.

One very often sees GP / Superbike riders doing this when the interviewers come along wanting to speak to them on the startline!
__________________
'01 Carbon Black M5
'01 Titanium Silver Z8

Last edited by Ice M; 17th August 2001 at 01:48.
Ice M is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 01:39   #8
Adam
Moderator
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South of England
Age: 24

Garage: R32

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Adam
Thank you Ice all that info is much appreciated!
Adam is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 02:00   #9
johann
Administrator
 
johann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 40

Garage: BMW E39 M5, Carbon black

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via MSN to johann

That was really some good advice from Ice M.

Except that with DSC on it's not that scary in rain or on a wet track.
If you go out on the track when it's wet, take it really easy.

I want to stress the importance of checking your mirrors, incidents can happen very easy if you forget that.

Cheers,
/Johan

Last edited by johann; 17th August 2001 at 02:02.
johann is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2001, 10:02   #10
Adam
Moderator
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South of England
Age: 24

Garage: R32

Sales Feedback: (0)

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Adam
Yeah treat it with respct is what I'm catching here.
Ok I think we are all set to go!
Dang if nly november ould come quicker!
Adam is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


eXTReMe Tracker

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:28.


Everything Copyright 2000-2008. Do not use ANYTHING from this site without written permission. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text appearing on this web site are the exclusive property of m5board.com and are protected under international copyright laws. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text on this site are for on-screen and on-site viewing and listening only. No part of this web site may be reproduced, copied, saved, stored, manipulated, or used in any form for personal or commercial purposes without the prior written permission of m5board.com. Use of any image or graphic as the basis for another photographic concept or illustration is a violation of the copyright. Any copyright infringement will be prosecuted to the full extent of federal and international copyright laws. M5board.com is an enthusiast board and we don't condone any dangerous activity. Our airfield events are completely safe based on years of experience, we conduct them during clear visibility with mature participants that have several years of experience with high-performance automobiles, large unobstructed run-off zones on sealed off private former military airbases and we clearly mark the braking zones. If inexperienced with high speed driving we do not recommend organizing your own event but attending a high-performance driving school. The use of the term "BMW" on this site is for reference only, and does not imply any connection between m5board.com and BMW AG or BMW North America.
Page generated in 0.19574 seconds with 10 queries