need HELP ASAP! Would fried clutch cause the pedal to go limp?
We've all heard the clutch story, but this one has a twist. My clutch pedal is limp and they are saying it's the fried clutch!
Here are the details. First, I let somebody else drive the car over the weekend! Now, before we go any further, I know the guy, and I've seen him drive a stick and he is pretty good with it (obviously! I wouldn't have let him drive the car if he wasn't). Second, he said he drove home and the car would not go out of the gear (after he parked in front of his garage). According to my friend, when he finally popped it out, it would not go back in while the car was running (it would go in if the car was stopped, thus it was not the linkage). I checked the clutch pedal and it was loose like something snaped. I thought that the cable might have disconected. My thoughts were, no big deal, they'll fix the cable and that'll be the end of that! Well, they called me today and said that the clutch is completely fried and that they would not cover it under warranty.
I do not understand how the fried clutch would cause the pedal to go limp? Why would it prevent the the shifter from going into gear?
What do I do to get them to cover the clutch? Any suggestions? I have to get back to them by 2pm EST so I'd appreciate a speedy response if you have the time.
First, I don't know how this particular clutch is "linked" but I'm sure it's hydraulic.
What if your friend hopped into your car and the clutch never engaged fully (for whatever reason)? He wouldn't know the difference, but the clutch would be slipping constantly. It's just an assumption, but if thats the case, he was slipping it the enitre time without knowledge, until it finally gave out???
I know thats grasping at straws, but the best I could think up...
Sounds to me like a hydraulic system failure. Your pedal operates the actual clutch mechanism by means of a hydraulic cylinder and reservoir, much like your brakes. Could be as simple as a leak. Once the fluid is gone, your pedal will fall to the floor, but nothing will happen at the clutch itself, which explains why, as it was going down, it would have been hard to get in and out of gear. Doesn't mean there has been any damage to your clutch, and its unlikely your friend could have caused it. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I agree with Greg.
A fried clutch won't cause you pedal to go limp.
Sounds like there is a hydralic leak or low pressure somewhere.
It could be an expensive and unnecessary repair if they are guessing that it's the clutch. Rather than the clutch itself, the problem seems to be with the clutch mechanism.
I've had clutches and pressure plates go on me, and the pedal has NEVER gone limp.
Can't you get a second opinion?
the clutch pedal was limp!
it does use a master cylinder (i.e. it is hydraulic)
they are claiming that the clutch is fried (and that I should pay for it). supposedly it smells really bad (even though I did not smell anything)
The limp pedal is a seperate thing and they do not know anything about it if it even exists. I should pay for the clutch, and if there is a problem with the hydraulics, they'll fix that under warranty.
If it ends up that something else caused the clutch to go bad, they'll cover it under warranty, but otherwise, I'll have to pay for it.
So, now the dilema is, do I let them dig in and than argue the bill if they try to charge me?
I think, I'll work on getting another opinion. Maybe another dealership would be willing to cover it under the maintenance program.
I'll keep you posted
Oh, yeha, and their official line is "take it back wher you bought it. Maybe they can help you. We can not work with you on getting BMW to pay for it since you did not buy it here!"
Originally posted by Y2KM5 Oh, yeha, and their official line is "take it back wher you bought it. Maybe they can help you. We can not work with you on getting BMW to pay for it since you did not buy it here!"
That's a bunch of horse crap! They are an authorized dealer and therefore able to work with BMW.
If they didn't actually pull the tranny to get to the clutch, there is NO way they can tell it's fried UNTIL they fix the pedal!!!! They have a severe case of rectal-cranial inversion, and I would either get a trusted mechanic to go in there with you and straighten this out, or tell them you have absolutely no faith in their diagnosis and want the car taken elsewhere.
I'm back from the dealership. The saga continues . . .
As a consequence of the few conversations and some help from this board, I realized that there are two issues going on here:
1. BMW's service departments SUCK (pardon my language)!
2. My car does not work, it was not abused, and they want me to pay for it!
Let me elaborate on this and explain what the importance and correlation is.
This is not the first dealership that I have had problems with. I already filed a complaint against the other local dealership (I had to take my other car (98 540i) to the body shop FOUR times before they got it right. Picking it up the first time, it still had the masking tape on it and there was about a pound of sand in the trunk! I am not even going to mention the miss-matched colors, sharp lines between the original and new paint job etc.). The place where I take the car now, is a little better when it comes to the quality of work, but a little worse with respect to customer service. Some of the other BMW drivers that I talked to had the same thing to say about trying to resolve their problems. Stories range from, $240 oil changes to paying for items under warranty. Any time I need something done to the car, I feel like a second rate citizen. Getting somebody in service to work with you is like pulling teeth. Itís always some kind of excuse;
-We do not have a loaner for next two weeks.
-I know itís a five-minute procedure, but all our techs are busy.
-I have a slot for you next month!
-Who was your salesman? Oh, you didnít buy it here? Hold on, let me see what I can do. How does two weeks from next Friday sound?
Does this sound familiar? Back to my point, it seems like most of the dealerships are not concerned with what their customers want, but something else. All I really want to hear is ďHow can I help you?Ē I want the service rep to be there for me when I need something. It should not be, Iím sorry, your xyz is not covered. Thatíll be seven gazzillion dollars! We spent our money on a LUXURY vehicle and should be treated as such. I would expect to hear ďYou know, normally this is a wear and tear item, but lets see if we can find a way to have BMW cover it.Ē And I am not talking about lying to the corporation, but trying to find a REASON WHY BMW SHOULD PAY FOR, NOT WHY THEY SHOULDNíT! I keep hearing, we canít do this, we canít do that. Nobody ever says, ďI really wanna take care of this for you. Iíll do everything I can to make it work out.Ē
. . . so the service rep does not understand what I am talking about and decides to get the manager involved. I explain my gripe to him, and it looks like he understands. He promises to go and bat for me even if I did cause the clutch failure. This took about an hour to convey and explain, but it seems that he got it. During the course of the conversation, it becomes clear that some of the BMW standards are forcing them to act that way, but he acknowledges that consumers should not be experiencing the cold shoulder of the service techs even if it is caused by the corporate office. I spent a long time talking to him on the service problems because I wanted him to understand that they should be sticking out for the customers. I explained that there might be a problem that BMW is not aware of (can you say clutch on the ///M5?). In such a case, consumer would have no ground to stand on since the standard policy is that it is not covered by the warranty. BUT if there is a problem, somebody has to bring it up. Some of us from the msg board standing on the soap box and proclaiming that there is an issue with the clutch did not getting us anywhere. BMW will not listen to us. They MIGHT listen to the service managers though. The problem is that if the service mangers never investigate what is going on, and just say it is not covered, it will never go anywhere. In order for the system to work, service reps should listen to the customers and DO THEIR BEST TO HELP. The complaints should be investigated and action should be initiated by the people that are in position to do something about it, the service techs and mangers.
This brings us to the current clutch problem. The clutch was not abused, but it failed. BMW says it is not covered. My dealer is certain that it is the clutch since they had an identical case (540i) just few weeks ago. There are numerous scenarios possible now:
1) If the clutch shows no sign of abuse, theyíll cover it. Hmmm, 18K and a new clutch? OK, so there was some kind of problem with the materials or workmanship . . . but, the numbers of people having problems are quite large. Outcome? I did nothing wrong and I was given a runaround. I am out at least a thousand dollars and the car is still in the parking lot! I AM NOT HAPPY!
2) The clutch shows signs of abuse. What is a sign of abuse though? The fact that it overheated and turned blue or purple does not mean that it was abused if there is a problem with the material or workmanship. How do you prove that it was not abused if there really is a problem with the clutch assembly? I did nothing wrong, nobody believes me, I pay for the repair. NOT HAPPY AGAIN!
3) I drove the car hard. The clutch fried and it shows signs of abuse. It is a 400HP car and it is designed to be driven hard. I never took the car to the track. I never dumped the clutch to see how fast I can launch it. But even if I did, it is a performance vehicle! Shouldnít it be able to sustain something like that without frying the clutch? At what point in time, short of intentionally damaging the car, does the driving become abusing? So I drive the car hard, but it is NOT DESIGNED PROPERLY and the clutch is failing. I bought a performance vehicle with a sub par clutch. I spent $80Kon something that doesnít do what it is supposed to do. NOT HAPPY AGAIN?
So on the second issue, where do you go from here? The clutch failed for no apparent reason because of the design. Replace the fried clutch with another sub par clutch (and please do not drive over 65mph or rev the engine above 5k since it might fry the clutch again)?, Can I have another one of those poorly designed clutches put in my car? Puh-leeeez?
I did NOTHING wrong and I am expected to pay for it! I know some of you think that maybe I canít drive and I did cause the problem. I thought the same reading about other memberís posts. But the fact is that I have been driving nothing but stick for last 16 years. I learned to drive in Europe where the cars rev higher and require paying more attention to shifting. I completed two driving schools and placed 2nd at the ///M5 experience autocross (it does not mean much, but it shows that I do have a clue). I know that many people consider themselves excellent drivers, so I play it safe and consider myself above average. I used to work as a car mechanic while in high school and later on I worked for a car magazine. I drive over 30,000 miles per year. I CAN DRIVE A STICK SHIFT! Trust me! So now, what? I am still expected to pay for the repairs (well, most likely).
The only chance I stand now is that the service manger understands where Iím coming from and he goes to bat for me with BMW. They might not listen, but if enough of them (techs and mangers) change their attitude and start helping the customers, at least BMW is going to hear about the problems that are plaguing their cars.