JUST HAD THE DRIVERS SIDE VANOS REPLACED BECAUSE THE SES LIGHT WAS COMING ON. I DID NOT NOTICE ANY POWER LOSS, OR DID I NOTICE ANY GAINS AFTER THE $4,300.00 SERVICE. WHAT DRIVES ME CRAZY NOW IS THAT THE SES LIGHT IS ON AGAIN.....A WEEK LATER.
WHAT I DO NOTICE IS THAT AT SOME TIMES THE ENGINE ROARS LIKE IT HAS AN AFTERMARKET EXHAUST ON IT AND IT SOUNDS RATHER HEALTHY....BUT AFTER A WHILE OF DRIVING THE SOUND GOES BACK TO SUBDUED. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON. I NOTICED SOMEONE SAY THAT AUTOZONE CAN PULL THE CODES TO TELL ME WHAT MAY BE WRONG. IS THIS CORRECT?
Evil Vanos (appropriate member name)
This happened to me BUT BMW said that my VANOS units were the problem after REPLACING the units, 2 coils, cam pos sensor and crank pos sensor, the fault was still there, the MAFs were then replaced and the car was fixed,Replace the MAFs first BUY them off the FORUM and save $$$$$ then try the Cam sensor Your local BMW garage WONT do that first they will just replace the most expensive part first good luck mate
Had both symptoms, at different times with my beast. To solve the problem with limp mode, change your MAF's, as said by Frits. My dealership would not listen to me, ended up changing both CAT's (at a cost of approx. $10 000 for the pair, amounted to almost ZAR 50 000 here in South Africa) problem remained until I told them to stop wasting their money and my time (they changed all the O2 sensors as well) and just change the MAF's. Insofar as the coarse exhaust note goes, I had mine fixed by changing the camshaft positioning sensor, a cheap part but took mechanic at dealership quite a few hours to replace.
Be careful of additives. Our cars are filled with Castrol TWS Motorsport Oil (quite special and **** expensive) and I'm told it does not mix well with additives.
Keep an eye on your knock sensor if you suspect poor fuel quality.
Hope this helps mate.
I am looking at a 2000 M5 that I am seriously considering buying, waiting for a friend to inspect it for me tomorrow. The car has ~75k miles on it and the price is right. The owner, who was extremely thorough and attentive to details (brought the car in for every little thing), has extensive service records (I got copies from the SA), all under warranty and nearly all within the last 10k miles, including:
removal of heads for cleaning and recondition (carbon build up)
new dash pixels (twice)
both MAFS replaced
replaced all lifters (2 lifters not pressurizing)
replaced blower resistor
replaced PS lines
also, in trying to fix a noise, the dealer:
updated VANOS springs and spline shafts "also 1-4 VANOS unit" (noise still present) >> replaced both bank 1 exhaust manifolds (noise still present) >> replace left side cylinder head, lifters and valves >> "noise now gone"
I don't know how to feel about all this. I'm glad the car is well documented. I can look at this one of two ways:
1) Every known issue with these cars has already been addressed, BUY IT.
2) This car is cursed and has had every problem ever attributed to M5's and will likely continue to have problems, STAY AWAY.
I dropped off the beast because I was having loss of power issues. At times the car felt as if its running on only 4 cylinders and did not sound right! I get a call back from the dealer and they say the codes that come up are the CAM ANGLE SENSOR BANK TWO and a VANOS fault. The dealer sais that they are just going to replace the sensor first and see if the VANOS still give a fault code. The technician claims that a bad sensor can set off a VANOS fault. Is this true? It sounds to me like they are too lazy to replace the VANOS unit and just want to patch fix the car???? Any thoughts would be great.
Richard from NY
So many things have gone on with my beast the last month, I don't know where to start or how many threads to open.
First, the Inspection II was done 2 months ago. I asked for a few other problems to be fixed as well at the time. By the time they got fixed, more issues popped up. Plus I was wanting to do various upgrades. Here goes the list and their current status.
Auto dimming mirror: Mine was covered under the CPO! It took them 3 times to order the right replacement but it's finally fixed!
Washer jet: I had a weak one. It is fixed.
The A/C fan speed became sporadic. They replaced the final stage resistor. So far, everything was covered with the 1 CPO deductable.
Rear diff oil leak. I've got a minor drip where the right rear axle attaches to the diff. They were checking whether this is covered under CPO.
I needed new pads. While deciding which to get, the pad sensor went off. Several folks recommended the Hawk HPS for the street for better performance and less dust. I got them put on. They squealed like crazy until 2 bedding in sessions. They still squeal a bit. A 3rd bedding in session didn't help. Now that I spent the money, some say "Oh yes, they do squeal sometimes". I'm not sold the HPS are better performing on the street either. It took an extra week to get in replacement pad sensors. BMW charges double the internet price! But they weren't in stock where I tried, and paid the $tealer cost to get rid of the stupid warnings.
I ordered Hawk HT-10 for the track. I'll let you know how good they are after VIR on 12/03-04. I've got the brake ducts and use ATS high temp fluid. I've got high expectations.
I've debated for a year over suspension upgrades. I settled for only doing shocks. The Koni-sports just went on today. I did the 1 turn from full soft front, 3/4 turn rear as discussed in many threads. So far they are great. They fixed a floaty feel from worn shocks and give a nice firmness to the ride & handling without being harsh. I haven't pushed the car hard enough to know how much I really like them
Of course, I took a twisty road home today but had to follow an idiot 5-10 under the limit. The only downside is I'll have to deal with a few rattles that may sound off more often now. The dealership hasn't found a few I've reported in 3 tries.
BTW, my only other suspension mod is a Dinan rear sway bar. It is in the outside setting.
I had a funny looseness to the front over certain bumpy roads. I suspected bushings but think the shocks fixed it. More time behind the wheel will better decide this. I have no brake shudder before or after the new pads.
New track tires. For now I'm sticking with the Kumho VictoRacers. I'm used to their feel and reactions at the limit. I had to replace the fronts only this time. I debated long over adjustable camber plates to solve the tire wear issue but there seems to be downsides to any setup with the stock springs.
Overall I'm pleased with the upgrades but will likely go back to stock pads on the street if the squealing doesn't get better.
Believe it or not, there's one more thing. I got an SES light the other morning. It's gone out but I've noticed a throatier growl to lower RPMs at times. Today it was real noticeable. I like the sound but is that a sign I'm headed for VANOS problems?
I feel I've visited quite a few of the M5 ownership nuances in just a few months. I guess that's better than being bored to death owning a Camry.
First post and a doosey...
Do some reading:
Vanos noise and What to do about it
This is a VERY common problem on the 00s, and many have had it addressed much earlier in their lives. As you will read a good many owners have had 'goodwill'. Your mileage is problematic. I'd still give it a shot (longtime customer, original owner, loyal, blah, blah, blah)
It strikes me that the $$s you are being quoted seem way high. From my quick read, it sounds labor intensive, but 10k is 100 hours!
(PS Anyone know if a good independent close to Montgo AL?? Might be time to leave the $stealership if they won't go to bat for you...)
had mine replaced under warranty at 20,000 miles, both units.
There are two kinds of VANOS problems that happen most often. One is "they don't work properly" and it's expensive to fix because you have to replace the VANOS units with new ones. They may or may not be noisy.
The second problem (I've had two M5's and I've had both problems, by the way) involves a failure of the O-ring seals between the VANOS units and the cylinder head. Oil leaks up into the air plenum, forms a pool, and then drains down and out through the air filters, like you are reporting.
While it's still not "cheap" to fix the second problem, it's 'way less than replacing the VANOS units (if the engine runs ok then they're probably working fine).
I hope this helps!
I asked for my VANOS unit back after having a new one installed but I was told that there is some sort of core swap. I assume that they are sent back to BMW if that's true.
You do have to ask yourself why someone would be selling a single VANOS. If it was a good unit then why wouldn't it be left in the engine - unless someone had a bad one replaced and decided to go ahead and replace the other. Still, it's kind of strange since there is no (or hardly any) overlapping labor involved.
I hear this weird and annoying rattling noise from the engine...its like what a deisel engine would sound. The beast has done 115Ks, and the oil consumption is unbeleiveble, i have to add a litre every 500-600 kms
any suggestions ?
Sounds like it could be the VANOS unit failing on you. Not a cheap replacement unfortunately. Run a search on VANOS noise and see what info you can gather to see if the symptoms match up. Best of luck and please let us know hwo you make out
I could really use some advise and words of wisdom from some of the other M5 owners out there. I have a 2000 BMW with 37,000 Miles on it. Its my part time daily driver, Its not my track car (E36 M3), Race Car (Radical), its just a fun car I drive on the street. Its been driven agressivelly but fanatically maintained. All Fluids, Filters, etc are changed more frequently than BMW spec. Not a scratch or ding on it. Stock other than some window tint, cup holders, and a TCM CAI Brake Duct setup and some Carbotech brake pads.
I bought the car CPO from Leith in Raleigh 1 owner the car was flawless minus a few stone chips and mild wear on the drivers seat. 19K Miles with brand new pilots and alignment on the car. Service History up to that point was not too bad....
Something in the rear strut assembly was repaired at 1700 Miles for Rear thunking noise (more on that later).
Tranny was replaced at 6K miles due to leak issues with original unit.
Problem with AC Blower (final stage replaced at 18K Miles)
Nothing else of concern to that point....
Once I bought the car other than the slipping clutch which I discovered about 2 days after I bought the car as I drove it hard everything was pretty good for a while... I have been babying the same clutch for 2 years now waiting for a more robust solution to be available. I was and am planning to do ACT or UUC upgrade this month but am going to have my personal mechanic do the clutch and a detailed inspection on the car because I trust him completely and is more cost effective. All this was in the works and then I started having some serious misfire issues and SES's about a month ago.
Up until then additionally the car had been serviced for the following under Warranty.
Replaced exhaust camshaft position sensor (SES, Limp) 21K Miles
Replaced instrument cluster for LED Segment failures (23K Miles)
Replaced right rearview mirror (Stripping Gears) (32K Miles)
Replaced MAF (SES) (32K Miles)
Car would always run great for some miles and then slowly loose power and smoothness and eventually throw a CEC for the many reasons listed above.
A month ago I was driving down at the beach giving it full throttle about 5500 in 2nd and it misfired and lit up the SES. Car was in limp mode. Reset the car and LIMP mode was gone. Drove it conservatively home the next day (Sat). Made appt to bring in for service monday. Drove car maybe 20 miles the next two days... I leave my house monday morning to take the car to dealer and glanced over in my parking spot and there was a 1/2 a quart of oil under the car. Check the M5 and it was 1/2 a quart down. Holy SH&*^, talk about having a heart attack! Got it towed to the dealer...
Dealer replaces VANOS unit under CPO (would have cost $2500+)
Diagnoses Failing SAT Nav (Quote $2700 to replace control unit?, no way, don't use it).
Ask them again to investigate this clunking noise from the rear of the car. this is about the 3rd time I have asked them to investigate this. Its been doing it since about 25K miles. Dealer reports that one of the four tranny mounting bolts is missing or broken. NOT COVERED UNDER CPO. What? $350 to repair. Decided not to do that as we are going to pull the tranny and do the clutch as soon as the engine issues are resolved. Problem is that was another noise not the noise I reported. more later..
I come to pick up the car and test drove it. Threw SES within 2 minutes after warm up completed. Similar condition full throttle 5K+ RPM. LIMP mode. return to dealer within 10 minutes.
Dealer diagnoses and replaced Coil Pack, Wire, and Plug on one cynlinder.
Drive with Service Manager and let him hear the rear clunking noise. Throws SES with 5 minutes and service manager hears noise. My quote to him, sounds like a rear shock tower bushing.
Dealer talks to BMW. Recommendation replace all coil packs, plugs, wires...
Replaced all Coil Packs, Plugs and Wires....
Dealer diagnoses thunking noise as "rear strut bearing". Sounds like what I said? $850 to repair. Not covered under CPO. Suspension is not covered!
Now I am starting to get irritated and frustrated. I love my M5, why is she doing this to me...
Tell him to not repair rear suspension noise. Again defer to my expert independent mechanic.
Pick up car. Took about 1 hour of driving to cause another SES....
Returned to Dealer again. BMW Recommends Crank Shaft Sensor. Sensor is replaced. dealer gets SES during test drive (I had been letting them test drive it all along but it never thew a code for them till now... )
Now BMW is recommending pulling the tranny and the think there is an issue with the flywheel (possibly missing a tooth). Surprise, Surprise this is not covered under CPO and even WORSE They want to charge me $$$ to do the diagnosis.
I talked with service advisor, shop manager, and the service manager in the last day. Also wrote an email to BMW NA asking for help and even talked to rep on the phone. His position good will has to come from the dealers. The dealer him and hawed too and said its outside protocol and he needed to talk to BMW. We'll see what they have to say tommorow...
So my car is stuck at the dealer. There are 4K in repairs not covered by CPO. The car has probably $15K worth of repairs since new and its still broken. I acceppted the clutch sucked along time ago and choose to be patient waiting for a good solution to become available. I understand BMW not wanting to warranty wear and tear items on the car and even the NAV (NAV: The only reason I care about this at all is resale $). But a bolt holding the tranny in place, a rear strut tower something and now they want to charge me to pull the tranny and potentitally replace a flywheel on a street car that has only 37K miles on it. I'm really not sure what to think at this moment. I could really use some advise from folks out there on dealing with BMW and my dealer and getting my beloved car back to me.
Longer term problem is my CPO will run out in April 06 and the car will have maybe 42K miles on it by that point. I know that the VANOS, MAF, and CPS are common failures but at this pace this car could become very expensive to own over the next few years... All I can say is I love this car but my relationship with it and BMW in general are stressed at the moment.
I have loved and had great luck with my 2 E36 M3's and my My M Roadster. My 2002 M3 Convertible had some many issues (not a lemon by the law but pretty sour) that could not be addressed after 7 trips to the dealer for the set of iissues, that I finally sold the car. I was mad at BMW for not getting that car sorted out. I was considering some other marques and drove the M5 and fell in love immediately. Sucker!
All Comments, Suggestions and Flames are welcome. Sorry for the long post but I had to get this off my chest...
MUST I GO ON. How many M5 E39 owners could there be on this board. This is overwhelming info. There can't be more then 300-400 on here.