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Vanos issues (long rant)

119K views 122 replies 41 participants last post by  MPOWDER 
#1 ·
ALL M5 MEMBERS SHOULD READ THIS! WIDESPREAD VANOS ISSUES COSTLY REPAIR DESIGN FAULT!

To all the M5 owners listen up. Maybe this will shed light on the future of your precious M5. I was once a proud owner of the Fastest Luxury Sedan in the world. The veil has been taken off and the truth has been revealed. This rare car we all relish in is nothing more then a ticking time bomb. Why does he say this do you ask? My friend is a Certified BMW tech that has trained and worked on these M5’s extensively for 30 years. He agrees there is a major flaw in the reliability of this engine. He has won several awards from BMW before leaving the company to pursue other endeavor’s. The car despite its elegant lines and performance of a Ferrari have a fatal flaw. I have had cars in the past with issues, like blowing the tranni on a 911, or blowing up the rear end of my Corvette. Never, and I say never have I encountered a problem like I did with this M5.

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I hate to say this but its “The Ultimate money guzzling machine.” I was not aware of the Vanos issues this car has. If you searched this forum for Vanos failure or oil leaks it will really surprise you. This is a serious problem that BMW refuses to recognize on their prize gem. They don’t want to admit that their precious baby has a fatal recurring flaw. I would understand if this was a freak occurrence, but ITS NOT. Not just the research but also certain BMW mechanics no longer under the yolk of BMW have attested to this. I have seen 100’s of examples of the Vanos failure on the E39 M5. If it hasn’t happened to you, just wait. Whether it was under warranty at 10,000 miles or at 70,000 miles like mine. There is no excuse for a $10,000 repair not related to replacing the engine for a car of this statute. I know **** well the E55 does not have any kind of Vanos issues. They have had their problems, but as I can see their cars runs much better then BMW. The problem is the beauty and sophistication of this engine. I hate to say it, but I miss my Meat and potatoes days. My old 96 vette with the Lt4 engine may have been a simple 350, but they just seem more reliable. My hat is off to the ridiculous efforts of the Motor ports guys for taking an F1 engine and throwing it in a sedan. They forget one important rule when doing this. The engine’s roots come from a million dollar car designed to run the 24 Le-mans not every day driving. A perfect example is the issue with the new E60’s Vanos line failure. The car is brand new and is already having problems. BMW is becoming a Mercedes in their pursuit for all automatic cars. SMG, AMG is there really a difference? Its sad really, The Ultimate driving machine is no longer there. I said it once and I will say it again, not letting some computer assisted squirrel sequential transmission do all the driving. Therefore BMW becomes no better then a Mercedes. I can’t imagine what the cost will be in 6 years when the warranty is up on that silly intricate 7-speed tranni. I bet people will be selling their second cars to pay for the SMG. Then the looks are another story. If the majority of the community has to adjust to the E60, then something is wrong. I am sure as hell not going to buy a car for a 100 grand and have to adjust to its looks. Whether or not its mechanics are beyond perfect is not the issue. What good is driving fast if you can’t look good doing it? Compare the CL 55 to the E60 on looks and even performance and the Mercedes walks away with the Cover of Sports Illustrated. I have said my peace on this already. I am getting off track. That’s another story, but kind of related.

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Furthermore, the integrity of the E39 is at risk. Now that it is 2006 those M5’s that are not garage queens are easing closer to the 100,000 mark. Now things are becoming quite apparent on the longevity of the S62 engine. I remember when the E34 and E28 cars could run into the 300,000-mile range, some on the original clutch if you can believe this. If your car has 150,000 miles consider yourself a good driver and really lucky, but for the most part there are too many of these Vanos failures to just let slip through the cracks. One of your members Steve from Alabama has his sitting at the dealer with a $10,000 vanos fix me on it. There is gentleman in Detroit that has the same issue with his. There is one from Sweden, another from South America. I could name 100 more, but you get the idea. Do the research if you don’t believe me. This is not an issue of someone crying on the forum about a problem that can’t be fixed. Remember there is a handful of these cars on the planet, and I believe more than 60% of them have Vanos issues. Not to mention the annoying clutch that is as weak as a 525i, actually same clutch. How can that be? I am not going to even touch on Carbon Build up and the severity of the cost.

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Bottom line I spent thousands in misdiagnosed problems from the dealership to find the answer to this problem. Its not the oil separators its not the Solenoid O-rings, so save your money and sell your M5 unless you enjoy renting cars and spending money on something BMW should compensate for, warranty or not. I am just lucky the engine didn’t go thermonuclear on me. The remaining members that choose to keep their M5’s need to research this issue extensively and go to BMW corporate with a lawsuit. Don’t try to tell me there is always going to be maintenance in expensive autos. My Porsche has no problems nearly related to anything this monumental. I could blow the 3.6-liter engine and have it rebuilt for less then the Vanos system on the M5. My corvette I could put through a tree and have about the same cost as a Vanos replacement. What good is the S62 engine if the dealer won’t rebuild it? They just send you a bill for $25,000 and a new vanos headache.

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I am really sad that my attitude towards BMW has taken a 180. I am lost forever to BMW. Especially now the new series has no more passion then a pair of titmice? My words of disdain will spread like a virus throughout the automotive industry and hopefully BMW will be affected by this negative repore. I attend the Sema and Ces show every year here in Vegas and I will tell the tales of the 400hp and 500hp rambler. A beautiful car with the life expectancy of a dog, if that. Join the Porsche Forums and try to find an issue equivalent to this Vanos issue. Agree with me or not, you cannot deny the validity of these issues. My M5 is now gone. I am sad but relieved of the burden

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Good-bye and good luck to all,

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Justin

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RIP M5

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To the days when the youth showed no signs of this Cancerous life sucking engine management system called the Vanos.

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#79 ·
Hi, trustworthy as your mechanic sure is, he might not be that familiar with those little niggles and fixes for our M5s. Dare I say, not a single mechanic outside the original M5 development team possess as much E39 M5 knowledge as this enthusiast community does, after all they fix m5s for a living but we do with a PASSION!
Back to track, scan your coeds, common vanos related issues can usually be resolved with CPSs, O-rings or a replacement solenoid(ask me how I know :biggrin:) If you do your homework you'll see that most if not all were fixed without involving the whole vanos assembly. Luck!
 
#83 ·
Hi, trustworthy as your mechanic sure is, he might not be that familiar with those little niggles and fixes for our M5s. Dare I say, not a single mechanic outside the original M5 development team possess as much E39 M5 knowledge as this enthusiast community does, after all they fix m5s for a living but we do with a PASSION!
Very true.

Also, keep in mind that techs working in a dealership don't see huge numbers of M5s... and they certainly don't 'cross communicate' to the extent we see on this board. While they have access to more 'official' information, they may not fully appreciate things that have been 'discovered' over time (that fuel filters can cause misfire issues even without low fuel codes, that mafs can go bad without codes, that a VANOS failure can be repaired with just O rings and not an entire bank sway)... Also, they cannot propose many of the fixes we can on this board- partial fixes to 'see if it works' are just not acceptable in a BMW dealership environment.
 
#80 ·
I have to agree with the VANOS issues not always having to be a major VANOS replacement. I had a problem with my VANOS a while back. It was leaking oil, it was a somewhat easy fix. The left back selonoid was repalced and problem solved. Unfortunetly, not all mechanics or tech know how to diagnose specific VANOS issues. Most just go for the major replacement fix, instead of troubleshooting the exact problem.
 
#81 ·
I will let everyone konw what the codes were. As we speak I am trying to buy the selonoids for both banks off of a brand new engine bought in 2006. I asked a question about fit. Seller is a board member. This was his response.
(Reread your email. To confirm, they came off a brand new E39 M5 motor w/ ZERO miles. Motor was purchased from BMW in 2006. Don't think the Vanos is different in size or ? from a 2000 to 2003 E39 M5 but, again, you may want to confirm.)

Jeff
So, as you can see, my question will be are all the selonoids the same size from 00- 05?
 
#85 ·
picked up my 00 M5 with 24000 miles on it for 22000 last January. I was beaming from ear to ear. Here it is a year later and I need to find a competent mechanic in Hampton Roads. Does anyone know?? I replaced my Vanos a month ago to the tune of 1500.00. Vantaam and a lot of other smart people said its almost never the Vanos. I took my mechanics word and replaced. Its now 45 days later and SES light is back on. My code reader says 0025 Cam sensor on exhaust side. I bring it in and he tells me its my other Vanos ( bank 2) that now needs replacement. I have just told him to close my hood. Car still runs. Just a little power loss and louder muffler, just like our board members say when there is a CPS failure. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I hope he is wrong. Now I just need another Indy or my last resort is the stealer. If the CPS does not work, there will be another low mileage M5 that looks like a great deal on the market. Purchase price means nothing when it comes to these cars. My two cents.
 
#86 ·
Hi 'MPOWDER'

Do you trust your mechanic? Seems he likes to take money off of you.

Your CPS symtoms are classic - change that first IMO.
 
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#87 · (Edited)
Agree with Neil

That's a textbook CPS symptom. I have three bimmers from the period and had CPS issues with all of them. The CPS's all had the same design, the one where the face of the sensor was not fully encased and flat. I wondered, seeing it, if oil could collect on it from surface tension and create a barrier or if it could seep in through the seam at the magnet and create problems. On each car I have, if one went, I replaced all of them because the rest would follow sooner or later. It sucks, but I haven't replaced one since. The newer design seems to be more reliable. Don't go aftermarket either. Buy the OEM part. The cheapos from FEBI and the like can be flaky right out of the box. I went through two new FEBIs on my wife's Z3 before I just bought the OEM sensor.

It's DYI too, if you're so inclined. Just search this forum for some DIY's and install comments. If you're not so inclined, I'd expect a BMW tech to bill you .5 or 1 hour each. No more than 1.5 hours for all four done at once.
 
#91 ·
Reading the original post that started this thread, I can't help but laugh. That guy is out of his mind. I guess we now know more than we did in 2006. Still hilarious..THE SKY IS FALLING OH NOOOOES
 
#92 ·
In all fairness to the OP, even in 2007 when I first joined the board a "VANOS replacement" was the recommended recourse for what we now recognize is typically a bad solenoid and sometimes a CPS or crank sensor. That is the nature of new technology and secrecy around it - even the factory doesn't know all the possible fault methods, the dealerships don't have the resource to dedicate a person to learn the intricacies of a single marquee, and the poor techs need such broad training that a deep learning of a single vehicle unlike the others is impossible.

And let's not kid ourselves - the makeup of the ownership base has shifted dramatically from first time owner who could afford an $85K vehicle (which often means serviced at the dealer since one cannot typically afford an $85K vehicle without spending a significant time working) to 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners who are happy to be in the vehicle, may have trouble affording all the parts they'd like to replace, and have the time and energy to devote to learning how the engine runs in detail.

So while I also found the post to be a bit chicken little, I can also see where he was very frustrated, and am glad we have as many mechanically inclined individuals on the board as we do...

d-
 
#93 ·
Put in new OEM CPS and cleared codes. Went out for drive. SES on after 2 miles. Same loss of power and muffler noise. I do have a new Indy. Atlantic Autowerks in VB. They were in conncurrence with the board and have experience with the beast. Next step is the solenoids which I already have bought new from board member. Man, I hope thats it.
 
#95 ·
DouglasABaker, that is a good post because sometimes you have to understand that there is lot of frustration when posting about a problem that seemingly is leaving an endless money trail with no solution. I think a lot of secondary owners, even though probably not as affluent as the original owners are willing to pay a price as long as they can expect a reasonable fix with some longevity. Those of you who are more mechanically inclilned are more apt to be able to deal with the ups and down of the S62, as you can save on labor, and can also get the fufillment of DIY. I can understand both sides but sometimes your faith does get tested. Thus we have some of these long rants by otherwise rational humans, myself included. The board does help though because we can share everyones view and hopefully obtain a satisfying solution.
 
#100 ·
Peake gave you a 4 digit code? That's a problem in and of itself since it is a 2 digit display :)

Making the assumption you added the 00 to the front, a peake code of 25 is 25 "PreCat oxygen sensor heater control, Cyl #1-4", which is in no way related to the intake air temperature - it means you need a new passenger side pre-cat O2 sensor, or have a problem in the wiring to the existing one.

I'd reset your codes and start over until you have a consistent result.

If you do swap parts, VantaaM5 has give you the process - bear in mind that the most likely outcome of swapping the mafs is that the error code moves to the opposite side, in which case you can get an IATS relocation kit or a new MAF.

d-
 
#99 · (Edited)
So if this is an OBD error,I would rather buy a intake air temp relocation kit(which is cheap and also good) than changing MAFs.

If you swap the MAFs from side to side and the error is gone,it is the MAF....also the cheapest way to solve the problem!!!:cheers:

If the code is still there,it is almost 100% wiring loom issue,would go the sensor relocation route then!
 
#110 ·
I must first pay my homage to Vantaam5 and DouglasABaker, you guys might not win an oscar but you belong in the Beast Hall of Fame. New Solenoid pack did the trick. Runs seemingly even stronger. Atlantic Auotwerks in Virginia Beach have some very knowledgeable techs and were in agreement with everything I learned from the forum. They ran some test on MAF's and said some of the numbers were high but everything okay. I have to learn a little more about those. I did see where they are located now, behind the radiator produces mre heat and you guys recommendation of the kit to relocate will give truer readings. I have my original vanos that was swapped out by previous mechanic. I should of known something then, when I had to ask for it back, that my mechanic was not on the up an up. I also have the other brand new solenoid pack. I think I will just go ahead and have them put in the vanos so I have an extra ready to go. Do you agree? Thanks a billion. Anyone reading this post, these guys are the experts. Heed what they say along with all the other knowledgable people on this board. As they say, they fix with a passion.
 
#111 ·
Good news MPOWDER. Doug + Raikku are clever fella's I agree.

How much was the solanoid pack out of interest?
 
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