Installing Android touch widescreen 10.25inch NAV into E39 M5

Although NBT is really nice, I'd put Android system's first. Sure, I know they're Chinese and of questionable quality but they are by far the best in terms of cost, programmability, flexibility and upgradability. I'm pretty sure most Android unit have the same rear pinouts but just use different adapters for different cars, so you probably can get the Android unit for the F10 or whatever and use the E39 harness and Canbus from another android unit. Hopefully. That's been the case with me so far. The ease of upgrading these units is so nice. Just wait a few years, and buy the next best thing if you want by swapping out the old headunit and plugging in the new one. Rear camera, audio, microphone, GPS, controls, all transfer over seamlessly. It's nice being able to rip the car apart once and be done with it for the rest of the car's life. Along with Resler, the integration of Android units is a no brainer. I almost feel sad for those guys that invest $1000+ in NBT when Android systems will definitely outlast them in the long run (wait a year after a Android system comes out and they're less than $100 on eBay! You can constantly upgrade 10 times!). Now they're even coming out with iDrive controls. Talk about blatant copying...

Hi TB,

Following on from your other thread response !

In addition to the cons of the OEM NBT retrofit, there's the large cost factor, the OEM level of audio sound quality and the increased likelihood of issues/problems as mentioned by those who've done it on the bimmerforums thread.

Onto the 2nd option which is the cheap chinese units with the widescreen - 'Smarty' and 'Seicane' and perhaps other branded clones make these types of unit. As per the other thread, you won't find high(er) end features like optical out or high quality electronics internally. These are the same basic units as the other clones but simply have a wider 9 inch display on the front.

Onto your 3rd option. I think this one won't work as the protocols the unit uses are the same as used in later BMW's. The E39 doesn't have that protocol, so unless you wish to develop an interface then this idea won't go forward.

The Resler Interface takes the wire from the iBus and 'converts' it to a USB output. I don't think it has the capability to control the OEM DSP amplifier. Perhaps email into Mr Resler to ask. To this day, many BMW owners still ask about audio head units to say 'will it work with DSP'. DSP for church and stadium effects went out of fashion by the late 90's. Also over the years, physically, there's more of these DSP amplifer units that are failing and there's no 3rd party electronics specialists who fix them as BMW didn't release the schematics or components list externally. If you *must* keep the OEM DSP amplifier with the medicore DSP speaker drive units, then look to buy the Dynavin N7 or Avin Avant 3 if you want to stay with a chinese unit. IF you don't mind ditching the OEM DSP amp, then you can get a high quality head unit, a 5 channel amplifier, excellent 2 way component for the front, entry level 5.25 inch co-axials for the back and a 8/10/12 inch subwoofer in it's own small sealed enclosure that sits against the rear seat bulkhead and fires the output from the sub through the ski hatch. This setup will sound a LOT better than the the other routes. I'll drop you a PM soon !


BavarianE31 - The aspects of programmability and flexibility don't mean much when many of these chinese units themselves aren't reliable enough to work properly for longer term use. a 'handful' of owners have got fully working units that have continued to work longer term. A big proportion of purchasers didn't get that at all and experienced all sorts of issues/problems and frustration and this is before we get to the sound quality of them!

Cheers, Dennis!

That OE NBT retrofit looks pretty sweet. What problems are people experiencing?

Personally, I would love the NBT retrofit if it could run a few select Android applications, chiefly among a few, a navigation application. I could get past lacking that ability, however. I abhor touchscreens in any vehicle and find the iDrive controller very easy and intuitive to use although the location shown above seems awkward in the E39. For me, the only real negative is the eventual obsolescence issue that will always plague OE solutions.

I'd gladly ditch DSP, install new amplifier(s), retain the M Audio subs and install one of these Android head units. They naturally work well with Bluetooth and Apple products, have updated GPS maps and are flexible. For the E39 and even more so for the E70, being locked in to a touchscreen is a non-starter for me. Fortunately, the E70 already has an iDrive controller that these units work with but for the E39, I'm not sure how one could be integrated.

I would pay a few thousand dollars for a proper Android-based head unit with separate controller.

A couple thoughts in no particular order:

- Touch screen as the only means of control seems questionable from a user interface perspective (to me at least). While we're all used to our phones/tablets not having physical buttons, trying to manipulate a touch screen while driving is easier said than done. I don't use all of of the hardware buttons on my Android unit, but the ones I do use (Home, back, volume, mute, etc) - I use frequently.

- The NBT works well because of the iDrive controller, which I've always found very intuitive to use in the newer BMWs I've driven. I believe there are a number of similar devices available on aliexpress & ebay, which connect via USB or wireless. The trick here is having application software which is usable with the knockoff iDrive controller. The BMW NBT software was developed with the iDrive controller in mind - Google Maps (for instance) was not. If you have to spin the wheel 3x around & press the button 20x to get to the Google Maps menu you want - I'm not sure it's a viable means of control while driving. I guess my point here is: keep in mind that nearly all of this integration is a 2-piece affair - hardware & software. And very little of it will be plug-and-play, so if you're not well versed in hardware & software manipulation - you may have a long road ahead of you.

- Steering wheel controls are handled via the "CAN Bus Interface" box that comes with most BMW-specific Android units. Although it's a somewhat redundant connection, it's completely separate from the Resler interface & iBus app

- Just to clarify a couple comments above: Mr. Resler simply manufactures a means to connect to the BMW iBus network. His interface has actually been around for a very, very long time - first as a RS232 serial interface and more recently USB. The reason most haven't heard of it is that there was no software available to really do much of anything with it. You had a couple laptop-based software options (NavCoder being the most common) or you wrote your own software using a Raspberry Pi or something like that. Not exactly basic level DIY stuff. Now that you can easily install an Android tablet in your dash & Adrian has developed the iBus app - you have a lot of options at your disposal

- DSP: People should be keeping DSP for one of 2 reasons - cost control and/or ease of installation. If sound quality is a big concern, there are exactly zero reasons to keep the factory DSP amp & speakers.

- I believe audio is not transmitted via the iBus network, just controls for the amp. The Android head unit extension plugs in place of the stock radio, so I can only assume that audio is input to the amp just like it would be stock.

- Dynavin is still the only natively compatible DSP system on the market, although the functionality is limited. Avin uses the Resler/iBus combo, which provides more functionality than Dynavin, but it's still not perfect. Sound quality is good enough for my uses, but if SQ was a bigger concern I'd just dump the amp & speakers and go aftermarket.

Hi,

For those 'concerned' about using a Touchscreen head unit in the car;

When I went for a head unit in my E39, I initially went for the first 'shallower' depth Alpine iLX-W407BT unit. It had a row of hardware buttons along the bottom edge which controlled volume, track/station up down and settings menu access and direction arrow ones. It was a mix of using those mainly for volume and the rest was on the touchscreen. I found it extremely easy and most importantly, very quick to use. A quick prod on the volume buttons was all that was needed - meaning keeping eyes on the road was much easier. If wanting to change aspects whilst driving, then the glance away from the road for me, was again quick and simple to revert back. I found almost zero cause for concern that it was/had a touchscreen interface.

I then moved over to the Parrot Asteroid Smart the day it had it's official UK release. Fitment was better as it's shallow depth was much better than the Alpine 407. This unit has no physical hardware buttons on the front giving it a very clean and uncluttered look. In practice and use, I found it very very easy to use when driving. A 'swipe' up on the screen, just like when using a smartphone, adjusted the volume up/down - zero time for eyes off the road. Another way was to touch the screen for a second or so and a volume slider bar appeared which could then be moved left/right for volume. Again, this was very very easy and simple to master in a very short space of time so when/if being used whilst on the move, it quickly became second nature.

I personally don't need to play games or have loads of apps on my head unit, nor watch video/tv all whilst driving. I simply connect both my phones to the unit for phone calls, and when I wish to listen to the radio, I use the free TuneIN app on one phone with unlimited data, and stream via bluetooth the station I want. Other times I'm listening off my ipod or sometimes will BT audio stream.

A combination of the above brings me to a main point. For those who *must* keep the OEM audio then those who add things like the Intravee for ipod control and when inputting address details on the Navigation, must take their eyes away when from the road for longer due to the amount of twisting of the rotary control knobs on the monitor unit, the 'prodding' to select a letter or number and then having to repeat it all many times to select numbers/letters/characters. This is far more 'risky' nowadays given the more numbers of cars on the road today compared to 1997/2000 when these OEM units began to appear in E39's. The various western countries have standards for driving and potential distractions whilst doing so. The 'idrive' type interface is still within guidelines as to what is legal and acceptable and thus, aftermarket unit's are also within those standards with touchscreens. The older OEM units I think are more (most) distracting nowadays.

Cheers, Dennis!

The way I understand it is the trick to DSP Audio is keeping the amp alive. The iBus interface keeps it alive via control signals, but I think that’s separate from the actual audio signal.

Yes, the iBus App was developed for any Android device. My Xtrons head unit uses the iBus app and the stock DSP amp. Avin just licenses it for use with their unit.

TB Thanks for the writeup.

I have the similar considerations. Agreed the NBT retrofit looks beautiful installed, but I would never want to install an iDrive based solution. The cost is over the top, and by 2018 we got used to touchscreens.

So I would definitely opt for a touchscreen based solution, with a similar look to the NBT and yes the SMARTY looks like it could be a solution. Unfortunately I watched a youtube install video of the product and it ended up looking really cheap... possibly because of the frame?? Maybe the installer used the X5 frame? Also the screen glare looked awful...

We need a high end product that can be retrofitted. I will stay tuned to this channel

Regards J

Sorry for posting in 2 threads.
This thread is more appropriate but I only found it after posting in Avin 4 thread.
So basically Avin released the E39 10.25 screen. It looks awesome on the pictures but not sure if anyone tried it yet?
Not sure when it was released either
10.25" Multimedia Navigation System for BMW 5-Series E39 / M5 Model: HHPX5801025E39

Hi Dennis
You got me lol
I've already looked into reviews for Avant 4 and they were quite satisfactory to me.
If I'm to expect the same quality on this screen, I'll be getting it.
If I order through Amazon, that should give me an option to return the unit in case it doesn't work well.
Since I got that pesky DSP system I need to run an extra wire to the trunk of the car.
That means getting under the carpet. I will combine the installation together with adding rear foglights as they also need to be wired from the front to the trunk.
I won't be doing that right away as I need to finish my wheels first but I will definitely post a very thorough review once I get it installed.

I want to read more about this. Please keep us informed.

Do they work with DSP?

I found a couple of options, seems pretty cheap

I'm just trying to figure out which unit to buy that will work with DSP system.

Avinusa and Xtrons were selling them for some time as well. Avinusa is not selling the 10.25 screen for e39 anymore for some reason, after selling them for a very short time.


This unit has great reviews on aliexpress