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post #61 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
LLcoolM5
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
Big Question: is this covered under the federally mandated Emissions Warranty?

If not, a class action might be in order.

David
David,

I have been pondering your suggestion a lot lately. This may very much be like the NiSiKL problem on the early (95'ish) 4.4 L engines. BMW wouldn't acknowledge the problem until enough people complained. Or we may have a very similar situation like the damm stupid pixels. BMW knows there is a problem and with the proper letter to the correct individuals at BMWNA, they will extend "good will" warranty work to fix these poor designs.

I am very much on continuing the technical discussions about carbon build-up, but I think it might help us all if we start some type of class action suit, email BMWNA bombardment campaign, letters from lawyers threatening actions, etc. Obviously the entire M5board would have to work out the details and gather more facts but this may lead us to the same solutions as the NiSiKL problem and the pixel fixes. I feel pretty confident we have a systematic problem that BMW should step up and fix. M5's are to expensive to have something like carbon build-up affect these cars.

2000 M5 Anthracite (Stock, and Lovin' It)
1997 740iL Jet Black (Wife's Car)
2000 Ford 4x4 F250 V-10 (Gas Guzzler)
1991 Baja 290 Outlaw (Twin 454's, Bravo 1's getting 1 MPG!!)
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post #62 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by __Andy__
No, I said "Coking problem: No"

Interesting that it's only in the US. Do we have different emmissions systems here?

Andy
Andy,

Thanks for the reply, I thought when you said coking that you were referring to what we call in the US carbon build-up. Some may get a chuckle in the US. Coking or coked-up can sometimes in the US mean you have been doing elicit drugs (cocaine), or in automobile slang you have added nitrous oxide or running aviation fuel in your car. Glad we have cleared that up.


LL


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2000 M5 Anthracite (Stock, and Lovin' It)
1997 740iL Jet Black (Wife's Car)
2000 Ford 4x4 F250 V-10 (Gas Guzzler)
1991 Baja 290 Outlaw (Twin 454's, Bravo 1's getting 1 MPG!!)
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post #63 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 04:42 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherMan
Why the heck won't my car burn oil dann it?
Eric, Not to sidetrack an important thread, but great line...LoL

Cheers,
Dave

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post #64 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 06:35 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norgeiron
As I told you guys, this happened to my US spec [Hawaii is in the USA] 2001 at 17, 232 miles, so carbon build up is NOT a function of high mileage. I wonder if cars in warmer states are more prone to suffer this problem.
Very interesting (though I'm sure painful to you).... i presume you got bmw to cover the repair...

How is your oil consumption? Eric's post would seem to suggest that it is not necessarily a function of oil consumption either.

Cheers,
Dave

'00 Royal Red/black/walnut M5
100% options, angel eye upgrade

'El Diablo'
’00 Black/black DA s/c M5
Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
Supersprint headers/exhaust,
UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~
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post #65 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLcoolM5
David,

I have been pondering your suggestion a lot lately. This may very much be like the NiSiKL problem on the early (95'ish) 4.4 L engines. BMW wouldn't acknowledge the problem until enough people complained. Or we may have a very similar situation like the damm stupid pixels. BMW knows there is a problem and with the proper letter to the correct individuals at BMWNA, they will extend "good will" warranty work to fix these poor designs.

I am very much on continuing the technical discussions about carbon build-up, but I think it might help us all if we start some type of class action suit, email BMWNA bombardment campaign, letters from lawyers threatening actions, etc. Obviously the entire M5board would have to work out the details and gather more facts but this may lead us to the same solutions as the NiSiKL problem and the pixel fixes. I feel pretty confident we have a systematic problem that BMW should step up and fix. M5's are to expensive to have something like carbon build-up affect these cars.
Agreed, though we still don't have a lot of information to go on... right now what we have is a collection of anecdotes from a relative handful of owners in NA. At last count, we have ~1,200 e39 M5 owners worldwide posting/lurking on the board. So not sure how widespread this problem really is. Perhaps at a minimum we should conduct a poll. The poll might be organized such that if you have had a carbon problem, please provide some basic information about your car (eg, build date, mileage, oil consumption), geographic location, and perhaps driving habits (eg, modest, moderate/mixed, aggressive). This might help us discern any patterns. If we can get a decent count among board members, maybe we can extrapolate to get an estimate of the scope of the problem among ALL e39 M5 owners based on known year-by-year build numbers...

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Dave

'00 Royal Red/black/walnut M5
100% options, angel eye upgrade

'El Diablo'
’00 Black/black DA s/c M5
Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
Supersprint headers/exhaust,
UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~
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post #66 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 09:41 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsodh
Agreed, though we still don't have a lot of information to go on... right now what we have is a collection of anecdotes from a relative handful of owners in NA. At last count, we have ~1,200 e39 M5 owners worldwide posting/lurking on the board. So not sure how widespread this problem really is. Perhaps at a minimum we should conduct a poll. The poll might be organized such that if you have had a carbon problem, please provide some basic information about your car (eg, build date, mileage, oil consumption), geographic location, and perhaps driving habits (eg, modest, moderate/mixed, aggressive). This might help us discern any patterns. If we can get a decent count among board members, maybe we can extrapolate to get an estimate of the scope of the problem among ALL e39 M5 owners based on known year-by-year build numbers...

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Dave
Ok, I'll start. Just had my 00 w/ 54K fixed under warranty as a "one time good will gesture". No lie, this was on my repair invoice. (don't know if my profession as a trial attorney had anything to do with the decision).

Build date: 9-99

Oil consumption: 1qt every 1200 miles

Driving: Moderate/mixed mostly interstate 55 mile round trip commute. Previous owner (up to 39K) had a 20 mile round w/o interstate.

Location: Coastal S. Carolina, previous owner High Point, N. Carolina

Bobby

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post #67 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 09:56 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

MY 12/99 Original owner.

Southeast Texas.

98000mls.

1q oil/1000mls

95% hwy driving

High rev driving. Hardly ever use 6th gear.

No codes.
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post #68 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 10:10 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

how about that BG treatment which many dealerships do to remove carbon from an engine.........normally a ton of black smoke comes from the back of the car cleaning out the system. I always wondered if something like that would be safe for an M5??

--Jonathan
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post #69 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 10:16 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boplaw
Ok, I'll start. Just had my 00 w/ 54K fixed under warranty as a "one time good will gesture". No lie, this was on my repair invoice. (don't know if my profession as a trial attorney had anything to do with the decision).

Build date: 9-99

Oil consumption: 1qt every 1200 miles

Driving: Moderate/mixed mostly interstate 55 mile round trip commute. Previous owner (up to 39K) had a 20 mile round w/o interstate.

Location: Coastal S. Carolina, previous owner High Point, N. Carolina

Bobby
Thanks for being the first to respond... I'm wondering if there is a better way of conducting the poll so that it gets maximum exposure to board members and we can more easily keep track of the information. I sent a note to Gustav for some guidance.

Any thoughts by all welcome.

Cheers,
Dave

'00 Royal Red/black/walnut M5
100% options, angel eye upgrade

'El Diablo'
’00 Black/black DA s/c M5
Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
Supersprint headers/exhaust,
UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~
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post #70 of 952 Old 25th August 2005, 10:34 PM
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Re: FAQ on Carbon Build-Up Issue (First Attempt)

What are some of the symptoms of this issue?

I realize the SES light is one, but are there any others?
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