1000mi after muffler delete: quieter, less roar, less power... - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 18 Old 18th June 2017, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
briarflyer
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1000mi after muffler delete: quieter, less roar, less power...

Hi all,

Finally had full stainless muffler delete. Initially was AMAZING.... see vid below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaUK...ature=youtu.be

It's been a few months and maybe 1000mi or so. I started hearing essentially a ticking when I press the gas down far (doesn't matter which gear, vehicle speed, etc.) and it is most noticeable at lower rpm (less engine/exhaust noise to mask it). This ticking comes from exhaust/below the rear half of the car and is VERY noticeable next to buildings or other cars.

Now I assumed the car was running rich after the delete because my stainless tips quickly became black. Not sure if relevant, but maybe... In addition, I also feel as tho the car has definitely lost some power and the car is definitely not the loud, lively red machine you saw in the video above.

The car has not been tuned. Does this matter? Does muffler delete cause rich mixture? Over time can this cause symptoms I'm describing? Anyone else have similar experiences?

Last edited by briarflyer; 18th June 2017 at 11:50 PM.
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post #2 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briarflyer View Post

The car has not been tuned. Does this matter? Does muffler delete cause rich mixture? Over time can this cause symptoms I'm describing? Anyone else have similar experiences?
The muffler is so far downstream of the rest of the exhaust I can't imagine that is the cause of your problems. If you are running rich, I would think it is something else. A temporary solution might be to go one range HOTTER plug to help prevent fouling. NGK range would be 5 instead of 6.

Best way is to get the AFR's, which you can get with a couple of pulls on the dyno. It will also show rwhp and power.

Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, Sachs high performance PP and CCC proprietary clutch disc, stock DMFW, open brake ducts, Hamann front splitters, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, 6k super white low beams, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge, Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup.......
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post #3 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 04:34 AM
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Is this ticking sound only occur at idle or slight revving? Could just be lifter noise with the oil being at operating temp. In most cases it's normal. Maybe get some 10w60 in there.

How hot has it been where you live? The less power feeling could be due to heat soak/driving in stop and go traffic. The other day I experienced a little bit of heat soak as the car felt a bit sluggish taking off from a light and it was hot w/ high humidity.

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post #4 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 05:10 AM
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First, check for codes (SES doesn't have to trip to have them)

Then, based off that I'd look at plugs / MAFs / pre-cat O2 sensors / vac leaks. Not necessarily in that order. Jerry's point on getting your AFR is spot on.
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post #5 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 05:41 AM
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Like Jerry says, the muffler delete is probably a coincidence and not your cause of running rich. Are you sure the ticking noise is from the rear 1/2 of the exhaust? Exhaust ticking sounds can be leaky manifold gaskets. This would also allow excess air in your system, post MAF. Extra air in your system makes the engine think it needs more fuel. Also check your pre-cat O2 bungs for cracks. Post your codes for these guys if you have them and, if you haven't yet, do some searching on reasons for running rich.

Edit: yeah, basically what mgdmb said^

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post #6 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your replies. I'm not even "sure" it's running rich, since the stainless tips went black (on the inside) just a day or 2 after the delete. Could be totally normal.

As far as AFR, maybe that's valuable to have.

10w60: I had the oil pan replaced & did provide the dealer with Castrol Edge 12w60.
QUESTION about this though, does the S62 consume oil? Should I add a quart? Could low oil cause a tick? I've put on maybe 1200-1500mi since that pan/oil change. If there's a rule of thumb please share.
ALSO: I've noticed my oil temp needle doing a little more dancing than usual....which leads me to think that maybe there's something going on with the oil.

Location of the tick: Definitely NOT heard at the engine. I had a collapsed lifter once and I just drove around until it filled back up. No issue there. But the engine is smooth & quiet from listening under the hood. The sound seems to be "perceived" from after the engine, though obviously could originate from the engine. 82k miles

Apart from getting my AFR, what else you got in your arsenal? Something I could figure out quickly and, you know, free
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post #7 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briarflyer View Post
Thanks for your replies. I'm not even "sure" it's running rich, since the stainless tips went black (on the inside) just a day or 2 after the delete. Could be totally normal.

As far as AFR, maybe that's valuable to have.

10w60: I had the oil pan replaced & did provide the dealer with Castrol Edge 12w60.
QUESTION about this though, does the S62 consume oil? Should I add a quart? Could low oil cause a tick? I've put on maybe 1200-1500mi since that pan/oil change. If there's a rule of thumb please share.
ALSO: I've noticed my oil temp needle doing a little more dancing than usual....which leads me to think that maybe there's something going on with the oil.

Location of the tick: Definitely NOT heard at the engine. I had a collapsed lifter once and I just drove around until it filled back up. No issue there. But the engine is smooth & quiet from listening under the hood. The sound seems to be "perceived" from after the engine, though obviously could originate from the engine. 82k miles

Apart from getting my AFR, what else you got in your arsenal? Something I could figure out quickly and, you know, free
you didn't do much research before buying huh?! No worries, yes its know to consume oil. Consumption varies widely. Start searching around the Board. Every question you have has already been asked, so you can learn soooo much just looking around. Have you checked the dipstick?! Check your oil per the instructions in your owner's manual, don't just throw a quart in. If you don't have a manual, search and you will find it here.
Seriously, you need to invest in a Peake code reader. If you want free, and useful help, you're going to need to report what codes you're throwing off. Otherwise you'll just be guessing and worse throwing $ at it that you may not need to. The guys here can save you 1000's but you'll need to be able to give a clearer picture of your issues.

2001 ///M5 ...Anthracite / Black Complete-Heritage
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post #8 of 18 Old 19th June 2017, 07:43 PM
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Does the ticking present itself most when the car is still cold? Does it go away or become less audible once the car is warmed up? I ask because the center exhaust hangers can also lead to a ticking sound under the car when they get worn out. I had this problem with mine. Changed them out to the updated hangers and all is well. Also, the S62 is known to burn some oil. From everything I've read it can be as much as a quart every 700 or so miles, to as little as none ever. Seemingly, the facelift upgrades had little to no impact on whether these cars burn oil or not. It's just simply a case by case basis.

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post #9 of 18 Old 20th June 2017, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briarflyer View Post
Thanks for your replies. I'm not even "sure" it's running rich, since the stainless tips went black (on the inside) just a day or 2 after the delete. Could be totally normal.

As far as AFR, maybe that's valuable to have.

10w60: I had the oil pan replaced & did provide the dealer with Castrol Edge 12w60.
QUESTION about this though, does the S62 consume oil? Should I add a quart? Could low oil cause a tick? I've put on maybe 1200-1500mi since that pan/oil change. If there's a rule of thumb please share.
ALSO: I've noticed my oil temp needle doing a little more dancing than usual....which leads me to think that maybe there's something going on with the oil.

Location of the tick: Definitely NOT heard at the engine. I had a collapsed lifter once and I just drove around until it filled back up. No issue there. But the engine is smooth & quiet from listening under the hood. The sound seems to be "perceived" from after the engine, though obviously could originate from the engine. 82k miles

Apart from getting my AFR, what else you got in your arsenal? Something I could figure out quickly and, you know, free
Seriously? Even though the S62 has a unique procedure, I wouldn't do that with ANY car I own. That is why most cars have a dipstick (newer ones have an onboard display).

Over filling can also do damage. You should get a warning light on your display when you get between 1.5 and 2 quarts low. But don't rely on that. Being down 1 quart should not cause ticking noise at idle or light load at the engine and will not cause ticking downstream of the engine.

So, do yourself a favor, please read the procedure and measure, something you should be doing on a regular basis anyway(every 2-3 gas fill-ups in normal driving).

As to oil consumption, each motor is different. It goes into how it was built. how it was broken in, how you drive and partly which oil is used.

In general, older motors (pre March 2000 build) motors tend to use more oil. The newer motors as of 3/00 had a change in the piston ring design leading to lower oil consumption in general. My motor barely uses a quart every 7500 in normal driving, but if you are on it hard, you will consume much more oil.

Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, Sachs high performance PP and CCC proprietary clutch disc, stock DMFW, open brake ducts, Hamann front splitters, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, 6k super white low beams, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge, Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup.......

Last edited by gsfent; 20th June 2017 at 04:52 AM.
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post #10 of 18 Old 20th June 2017, 04:39 AM
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If the ticking is not at the engine and under the car, it is most likely your cats going bad. Your SES light will go on soon.
I am assuming it clicks even when in neutral, and is not engine speed dependent.
Don't over fill your oil, you will only cause more problems with the crank whooping up the oil into a froth.
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