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E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #1 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Hellcat

Ok - I seriously wasn't even dreaming of swapping out the M5, but ran across a killer deal on a left over 2016 Hellcat Charger and damn if I'm not giving it serious thought!!

My M5 is a 2003 Imola red with 102K miles that I bought 5 years ago in showroom condition - it's damn close to still in showroom condition, always garaged and is in good mechanical shape with refreshed CPS / TPS, plugs, etc.

I was planning to keep this another 5 years or so which would take me up over 150K miles - at that point, who knows where the wind might blow - can't think beyond that or even 3 years to be honest in terms of cars!

Couple factors have me considering this right now - first, I picked up a 2016 Camaro SS convertible which is my new weekend sports car / special car. M5 is really just the DD but it is also a very special car to me and I've been very happy driving it the last 5 years. But we are also considering swapping our only other sedan - my wife's Mazda3 for a 328i convertible as she may want to try a convertible. So that leaves the M5 as the only sedan in the mix other than the kids cars which are mostly gone. So M5 becomes the family car. 2 kids in college so it's not like we are shuttling kids around. But looks like one is moving back next year and could potentially have a full house again for some period of time - never know how these things develop. Oldest graduates this year btw.

So not sure I really want the M5 to be the sole family car.

Second thing is I'm about to spend ~$5K on it to upgrade the audio, refresh suspension and re-finish the OEM 65 wheels. Mechanically nothing else to do at this point other than maybe replace O2 sensors as PM - but car runs great and gets very good MPG, so probably nothing needed mechanically currently beyond a suspension refresh. Actually the suspension is pretty good considering the miles - it's been a warm weather and always garaged car and lots of highway miles which helps.

So I ran the numbers, because I like to see how such moves compare financially.
Over 5 years the HC would end up about $12K more $$ assuming equal tire cost and assuming the M5 will depreciate $2K per 10K miles and assuming a baseline cost of $2K / year for repairs / maint all DIY plus the items I am planning in the short term.

That would take the M5 out to 150K miles

For the record, car expenses within a couple $K per year are within the acceptable range for me so not really much of a factor. So I'm going to try and look at this purely on what I would rather drive for the next 5 years, and maybe take some consideration for the time and hassle spent in the repair / maint taking the M5 from 100K to 150K miles.

Sure seems tempting on the surface. at least enough to get me over to the dodge dealer to take a look for myself!

And just to pre-empt the inevitable, no - I won't own both. That makes no sense. I have a truck and a convertible hot rod / sports car and only want / need one sedan in the mix.
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post #2 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C4RACER View Post
Ok - I seriously wasn't even dreaming of swapping out the M5, but ran across a killer deal on a left over 2016 Hellcat Charger and damn if I'm not giving it serious thought!!

My M5 is a 2003 Imola red with 102K miles that I bought 5 years ago in showroom condition - it's damn close to still in showroom condition, always garaged and is in good mechanical shape with refreshed CPS / TPS, plugs, etc.

I was planning to keep this another 5 years or so which would take me up over 150K miles - at that point, who knows where the wind might blow - can't think beyond that or even 3 years to be honest in terms of cars!

Couple factors have me considering this right now - first, I picked up a 2016 Camaro SS convertible which is my new weekend sports car / special car. M5 is really just the DD but it is also a very special car to me and I've been very happy driving it the last 5 years. But we are also considering swapping our only other sedan - my wife's Mazda3 for a 328i convertible as she may want to try a convertible. So that leaves the M5 as the only sedan in the mix other than the kids cars which are mostly gone. So M5 becomes the family car. 2 kids in college so it's not like we are shuttling kids around. But looks like one is moving back next year and could potentially have a full house again for some period of time - never know how these things develop. Oldest graduates this year btw.

So not sure I really want the M5 to be the sole family car.

Second thing is I'm about to spend ~$5K on it to upgrade the audio, refresh suspension and re-finish the OEM 65 wheels. Mechanically nothing else to do at this point other than maybe replace O2 sensors as PM - but car runs great and gets very good MPG, so probably nothing needed mechanically currently beyond a suspension refresh. Actually the suspension is pretty good considering the miles - it's been a warm weather and always garaged car and lots of highway miles which helps.

So I ran the numbers, because I like to see how such moves compare financially.
Over 5 years the HC would end up about $12K more $$ assuming equal tire cost and assuming the M5 will depreciate $2K per 10K miles and assuming a baseline cost of $2K / year for repairs / maint all DIY plus the items I am planning in the short term.

That would take the M5 out to 150K miles

For the record, car expenses within a couple $K per year are within the acceptable range for me so not really much of a factor. So I'm going to try and look at this purely on what I would rather drive for the next 5 years, and maybe take some consideration for the time and hassle spent in the repair / maint taking the M5 from 100K to 150K miles.

Sure seems tempting on the surface. at least enough to get me over to the dodge dealer to take a look for myself!

And just to pre-empt the inevitable, no - I won't own both. That makes no sense. I have a truck and a convertible hot rod / sports car and only want / need one sedan in the mix.
It's a shame the Hellcat Charger does not come with 3 pedals like the Challenger. Since it is the same drive train, makes little sense.

As to numbers, I don't think the M5 will depreciate anywhere near that much. Miles play a role, so does condition. OTOH, a new HC (even discounted) would seem to have a bunch more built in depreciation. And if you roll out sooner than 5 years (based on your history here, ), depreciation per year goes up as we both know the early years show the most depreciation. What is the residual on a lease at 3 and 5 years? While the amount will be a little off since it is based on MSRP, which you are not paying, you will get a good feel for what Marchionne and his group think about the subject.

The HC can be a very fun car (as if the SS wasn't fun enough!), but I don't think it is anywhere near as special as the M5. Not sure about build quality, but you can always check CR for stuff like that.

If it were me and I was considering the HC, I would want to spend a day or two driving it where I normally do most of my driving so I know what I would be getting. I know what I would be giving up.

Regards,
Jerry

P.S. Pictures for this discussion should be required!

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, Sachs high performance PP and CCC proprietary clutch disc, stock DMFW, open brake ducts, Hamann front splitters, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, 6k super white low beams, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge, Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup.......
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post #3 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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My calculations factor in the HC depreciation. Which is a lot no doubt. Zero MF lease deal first 3 years and residual is 52pct of sticker which is $69K so that's about $36K. I am assuming it drops another $10-12K in the next two years so it's valued at $25K in 5 years with 50K miles for the purpose of my analysis.
It's about $11K off sticker btw.

So you don't think an E39 will drop $2K per 10K miles ? Maybe not. But mine has dropped about $8K in 50K miles which is $1500 per 10K so at least that number. I figure higher going from 100K to 150K as higher mikes limits the potential buyers which is how I came up with my $2K number.


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post #4 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 09:21 PM
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Chevy SS is being deeply discounted as well. Have you already thrown that into the mix for consideration?


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post #6 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 09:48 PM
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A good friend recently got a Hellcat and owned it for about all of one month. In that time, he said the car just would not hook up at all (and this is long before he enabled the red key). In his quest for better traction, he upgraded the wheels and tires (going up to 325s) and he said the car would just laugh at it and the tires would break loose at up to 90...once he finally went up to the red key.
All that said, they are giving out good deals on it and he made out just fine for only having owned the car for a month but honestly, I think it is just too much especially if you plan on DD'ing it. After all, what good is power if you can't put it down to the ground?

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post #7 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Chevy SS is being deeply discounted as well. Have you already thrown that into the mix for consideration?


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I have two Chevys already don't really want a garage full of them !


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post #8 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 10:18 PM
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I was once stopped at a light with the HC next to me, not knowing what it is.
It took off hard, and the little burp it makes while shifting under hard throttle made my jaw drop.
It sounds amazing.
I than started reading up on them, and the conclusion is that it's way too much power, for the traction.
I still would welcome it in my garage, with open arms, drooling.
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post #9 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 10:36 PM
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I have two Chevys already don't really want a garage full of them !


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Fair enough.

If the M5 is not going to stay in the collection, then I guess trying out the hellcat for a few years would be pretty awesome.

I just got my M5 so I am going to give it a fair shot but like you, I don't tend to keep cars very long and tend to pass them along to get some time to experience something else.


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post #10 of 73 Old 13th March 2017, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Fair enough.

If the M5 is not going to stay in the collection, then I guess trying out the hellcat for a few years would be pretty awesome.

I just got my M5 so I am going to give it a fair shot but like you, I don't tend to keep cars very long and tend to pass them along to get some time to experience something else.


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Ya tends to be what I do. This is the one I was thinking would stay longer than most maybe a lot longer than most. And it still might. But this is a tempting idea for sure !


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