DME swapping, tuning, programming, et al - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 25 Old 15th February 2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
technician117
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DME swapping, tuning, programming, et al

As some of you know from my thread here 2000 Imola Red M5 restoration I am working on a project M5. One hurdle I will be coming up against in the next week or two is getting it fired up. The hurdle is with the DME. The original is in the car now and has an Evolve MAFless tune for headers and their cold air intakes. I am putting this car back to essentially stock, so this programming won't work. The replacement engine we bought, as mentioned in that thread, came with the DME for that engine. That DME has a TTFS MAFless tune on it, but otherwise fits a "stock" engine spec. I wouldn't mind being able to run this tune on the car. The problem is I know I can't simply swap DME's without coding out the EWS, nor do I really want to. So here are a few questions:

Is there a way to save the Evolve tune from simply being overwritten? The reason for saving would be to sell it? Maybe a waste of time trying to save? My M5 is already tuned.

Can I upload the TTFS tune without a TTFS cable or program, and then download it to the other DME?

If I'm SOL on both tunes, I am correct in thinking I can find a stock BMW tune on the internet and upload that? I do have NCS Expert on my laptop. I also have a Powerchip cable and software from way back. This is the method I use to upload/download my Jailbreak tuning on my M5.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

UUC dssr and shifter
Supersprint headers with Tubi catback
Jailbreak tuning
Dinan 3.45
JED lightened flywheel
258,000 miles and counting...
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post #2 of 25 Old 15th February 2017, 10:18 PM
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Tim,

Do you have the Evolve tuning cable that's paired with the Evolved tuned DME? The Evolve tune modifies a number of things that render both the program space and the parameter space (the actual tune part) unable to be read back out. If you still have the original Evolve cable paired to the DME, you can contact Evolve with your DME information and ask them to unlock the ECU. You can then flash the new unlocked tune with the cable. Otherwise the only way to make it readable again is to flash a stock MSS52 program and parameter space.

The good news is that the TTFS tuned DME should be a lot easier to work with. He doesn't modify the program space so the ECU is 100% unlocked. Your best bet is to just re-code that DME for your new VIN and rock and roll. I'd recommend grabbing a full dump of the DME before tweaking anything on it.

Adding / Updating your VIN & AIF with Tool32 - ECUWorx

2002 ///M5 Chiaretto Red/Caramel
  • Handling: DINAN Stage 2 Suspension / Front Strut Tower Brace
  • Performance: Evolve stage 2 S/C with billet aluminum plenum / Aeromotive 11140 / Tuning by Frank Smith
  • Ear candy: DINAN Free Flow Exhaust / Intravee II / KCA-420i / 30GB iPod
  • Eye candy: 20% 3M Ceramic / Opti-Coat 2.0 by mzarif / Technical Graphite trim / Storm Motorwerks products / Nappa shifter / Slimmbones armrest

Last edited by chuffykow; 15th February 2017 at 10:19 PM.
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post #3 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 12:59 AM
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Tim,

I think your best option is to reprogram the vin to the DME with the TTFS tune. Evolve locks all of their tunes, i was able to get them to unlock mine but I purchased their tune. Frank is a good guy to work with and may be willing to reprogram the vin if you send it to him for a fee. I have the ecuworkx software and have made modifications to my ecu without any issues so that may be the easiest solution.

Gabriel

RK Autowerks Stage 1 Supercharger - Tuned By TTFS -Evolve Medusa Headers - Magnaflow Cats - Supersprint X-Pipe - Eisenmann Race Mufflers - Dinan Stage 3 Suspension
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post #4 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuffykow View Post
Tim,

Do you have the Evolve tuning cable that's paired with the Evolved tuned DME? The Evolve tune modifies a number of things that render both the program space and the parameter space (the actual tune part) unable to be read back out. If you still have the original Evolve cable paired to the DME, you can contact Evolve with your DME information and ask them to unlock the ECU. You can then flash the new unlocked tune with the cable. Otherwise the only way to make it readable again is to flash a stock MSS52 program and parameter space.

The good news is that the TTFS tuned DME should be a lot easier to work with. He doesn't modify the program space so the ECU is 100% unlocked. Your best bet is to just re-code that DME for your new VIN and rock and roll. I'd recommend grabbing a full dump of the DME before tweaking anything on it.

Adding / Updating your VIN & AIF with Tool32 - ECUWorx
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Originally Posted by gbmwpower View Post
Tim,

I think your best option is to reprogram the vin to the DME with the TTFS tune. Evolve locks all of their tunes, i was able to get them to unlock mine but I purchased their tune. Frank is a good guy to work with and may be willing to reprogram the vin if you send it to him for a fee. I have the ecuworkx software and have made modifications to my ecu without any issues so that may be the easiest solution.

Gabriel
Thanks guys. I do have the Evolve cable. I'l look into the vin change work...

Tim

UUC dssr and shifter
Supersprint headers with Tubi catback
Jailbreak tuning
Dinan 3.45
JED lightened flywheel
258,000 miles and counting...
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post #5 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 02:19 AM
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There are some people in this thread that are misinformed. The VIN has nothing to do with whether the DME works in the car or not. It's the ISN, which is tied to the EWS module and keys. This is why you need an EWS delete or virginize the DME to new and copy the ISN from the EWS. Doing an EWS delete is pretty easy and can be done with bmwflash to the TTFS DME easily. As for the Evolve DME, it depends on if your DME is locked or not. I know that at some point, they didn't do the modified program space anymore and therefore you could still modify it with the standard tools (bmwflash, galletto, etc.). If you have an INPA cable, you can use BMWflash to read the current DME tune to your computer. If you then open both in hexedit and scroll down to the bottom of the file, see if they have the same type of information in the last several lines, which should look something like this:

Code:
211321001601D409211321001601D409211321001601D40918002060
You can see the "1601" in there, which is the version of the program. Other possible versions would be 1301, 1401, 1501. You might have another if it's a really old version. If you don't see a string of numbers/letters in that format of the Evolve tune, then it is encrypted and you'll need to get the unlocked version from Evolve as others have mentioned.

Feel free to PM me about any questions on what you find out or if you need help getting that information.

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log

Last edited by blackknight530i; 16th February 2017 at 02:19 AM.
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post #6 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
There are some people in this thread that are misinformed. The VIN has nothing to do with whether the DME works in the car or not. It's the ISN, which is tied to the EWS module and keys. This is why you need an EWS delete or virginize the DME to new and copy the ISN from the EWS. Doing an EWS delete is pretty easy and can be done with bmwflash to the TTFS DME easily. As for the Evolve DME, it depends on if your DME is locked or not. I know that at some point, they didn't do the modified program space anymore and therefore you could still modify it with the standard tools (bmwflash, galletto, etc.). If you have an INPA cable, you can use BMWflash to read the current DME tune to your computer. If you then open both in hexedit and scroll down to the bottom of the file, see if they have the same type of information in the last several lines, which should look something like this:

Code:
211321001601D409211321001601D409211321001601D40918002060
You can see the "1601" in there, which is the version of the program. Other possible versions would be 1301, 1401, 1501. You might have another if it's a really old version. If you don't see a string of numbers/letters in that format of the Evolve tune, then it is encrypted and you'll need to get the unlocked version from Evolve as others have mentioned.

Feel free to PM me about any questions on what you find out or if you need help getting that information.
Thanks for the clarification - I haven't delved that deep into the MSS52! When you say virginize a DME, do you mean simply restoring a completely stock program and parameter space? How is the ISN extracted (I imagine it's just a memory offset), and then moved to another DME?

2002 ///M5 Chiaretto Red/Caramel
  • Handling: DINAN Stage 2 Suspension / Front Strut Tower Brace
  • Performance: Evolve stage 2 S/C with billet aluminum plenum / Aeromotive 11140 / Tuning by Frank Smith
  • Ear candy: DINAN Free Flow Exhaust / Intravee II / KCA-420i / 30GB iPod
  • Eye candy: 20% 3M Ceramic / Opti-Coat 2.0 by mzarif / Technical Graphite trim / Storm Motorwerks products / Nappa shifter / Slimmbones armrest
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post #7 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuffykow View Post
Thanks for the clarification - I haven't delved that deep into the MSS52! When you say virginize a DME, do you mean simply restoring a completely stock program and parameter space? How is the ISN extracted (I imagine it's just a memory offset), and then moved to another DME?
Virginize means wiping it out completely of any vin or isn. This would be how it came from the factory new. You can't do this with simple software as it requires changing the program space. To do that requires MSSflasher tool or a BDM tool that connects directly to the memory chips on the dme. However, EWS delete can be done in the data space and just tells it to not care what the ISN is. The ISN is stored in the program space and can't be changed easily.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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post #8 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 04:07 AM
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Am I correct in assuming the EWS link to the DME is for theft-deterrence? In reality, how much more vulnerable are you to theft with an EWS delete? Just curious

- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Nappa
Dynavin N6, Dinan Exhaust, AutoSolutions SSK
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post #9 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
Virginize means wiping it out completely of any vin or isn. This would be how it came from the factory new. You can't do this with simple software as it requires changing the program space. To do that requires MSSflasher tool or a BDM tool that connects directly to the memory chips on the dme. However, EWS delete can be done in the data space and just tells it to not care what the ISN is. The ISN is stored in the program space and can't be changed easily.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Very interesting. If the ISN is stored in the program space, how is it put there to begin with? When a person wants to upgrade the program on their ECU from say 1301 to 1601, how is the ISN value transferred between programs when the upgrade takes place? It's not clear to me how updated stock software can be flashed while still retaining the ability to start/drive the car. Do you have any resources you can link me to on this for the MSS52 ?

2002 ///M5 Chiaretto Red/Caramel
  • Handling: DINAN Stage 2 Suspension / Front Strut Tower Brace
  • Performance: Evolve stage 2 S/C with billet aluminum plenum / Aeromotive 11140 / Tuning by Frank Smith
  • Ear candy: DINAN Free Flow Exhaust / Intravee II / KCA-420i / 30GB iPod
  • Eye candy: 20% 3M Ceramic / Opti-Coat 2.0 by mzarif / Technical Graphite trim / Storm Motorwerks products / Nappa shifter / Slimmbones armrest
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post #10 of 25 Old 16th February 2017, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rontgen View Post
Am I correct in assuming the EWS link to the DME is for theft-deterrence? In reality, how much more vulnerable are you to theft with an EWS delete? Just curious
Yeah, not much of a theft deterrent. If someone had an ews deleted dme, they still couldn't start the car without the key that matches the ews module.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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