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post #91 of 127 Old 11th January 2017, 10:20 PM
CSBM5
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Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
I'm hoping Chuck (CSBM5) weighs in, because I've ridden in his M5 with the Dinan suspension and his looks fantastic. If I can find someone selling some Dinan springs, I may just go with those, but if someone can tell me the Eibachs are comparable, I may change to those instead.
Don't know if H&R have changed anything since, but 10+ years back the only springs available for the M5 from them were front springs. OldRanger did a nice job cutting the rears properly to balance things out on his car since otherwise the car sits seriously tail-high with those.

BTW, stock ride height is ~14.5" front, ~14.25 rear. Dinan spring spec is 14" +/- 0.25", but in my experience, most all end up more like 13.5-13.75" all around which is about where my car is.

I've had the Dinan springs for ~11 years now, and for street use only, they are a reasonable compromise. If the car had come with them, few owners would have complained imo. If I had to do it over again, I would go with GC coilovers and pick a nice firm spring rate (550/320 ish or thereabouts), since I don't mind a nice firm but supple ride (as in my M3 which is perfectly sprung/damped for my tastes).

For serious driving, the Dinan springs are way, way too soft. Here's a view of how much compliance they have under maximum cornering, braking and acceleration. With GC camber plates set to max negative camber (-2.3), it's not "too bad" in such situations in terms of outright grip, but there's nonetheless a lot of movement and lack of tight body control in all transitions.

Current stable:

2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
Dinan: springs, Konis, rear sway bar;
Ground Control camber plates, Brake ducts opened, Evolve tune


2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop
Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Michelin PSS street/Nitto NT-01 time trials

2007 328i wagon Silver/gray
2006 330i E90 ZSP 6MT Electric Red/Black
1975 CanAm 125MX2
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post #92 of 127 Old 12th January 2017, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Don't know if H&R have changed anything since, but 10+ years back the only springs available for the M5 from them were front springs. OldRanger did a nice job cutting the rears properly to balance things out on his car since otherwise the car sits seriously tail-high with those.

BTW, stock ride height is ~14.5" front, ~14.25 rear. Dinan spring spec is 14" +/- 0.25", but in my experience, most all end up more like 13.5-13.75" all around which is about where my car is.

I've had the Dinan springs for ~11 years now, and for street use only, they are a reasonable compromise. If the car had come with them, few owners would have complained imo. If I had to do it over again, I would go with GC coilovers and pick a nice firm spring rate (550/320 ish or thereabouts), since I don't mind a nice firm but supple ride (as in my M3 which is perfectly sprung/damped for my tastes).

For serious driving, the Dinan springs are way, way too soft. Here's a view of how much compliance they have under maximum cornering, braking and acceleration. With GC camber plates set to max negative camber (-2.3), it's not "too bad" in such situations in terms of outright grip, but there's nonetheless a lot of movement and lack of tight body control in all transitions.
Hey Chuck,

Thanks for chiming in on the Dinan springs. First of all, my car is primarily my street car, so I want compliance. A couple track weekends per year at my level is about all I'm interested in, so I don't need race car stiff all year round. Would you say the Dinan springs were softer than stock?

When I looked at their website and saw that they only dropped 1/4" front and rear, I was a bit disappointed, but it does appear from the long thread on M5board with different suspension setups that they are pretty popular and do seem to drop more than just 1/4".

I took this picture this morning with the wheels turned straight to get a better idea of the wheel gap:



I think the front tires are too tall. They are 26" total diameter vs the stock M5 245/40/18 25.7". If I were to switch the front tires to 245/35/19, I would be giving myself more clearance to lower the strut down into the knuckle a bit, which would in turn reduce the wheel gap slightly as well. Then if I were to get some Dinan springs, that would lower it 1/4-1/2" more, which I think would be good.

You aren't planning on getting some ground controls soon, would you? Because I might buy your Dinans if you are .

Really cool video too!

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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post #93 of 127 Old 13th January 2017, 01:08 AM
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From my meager memory recall, I think Dinan used to advertise that their springs were ~20% stiffer than stock. However, the stock springs are progressive (at least the rear ones are), and the Dinan springs are linear, so it's difficult to compare rates. I would need to pull out my notes from the spring/Koni install, but I think they dropped my car about 3/4" to 7/8" from stock. I don't have any plans for the M5 right now to change anything else as I just don't drive the car much currently. I've pondered selling it, but it's such a rare and special car, at the moment, I'm holding...planning on detailing the undercarriage actually is my main plan.

Current stable:

2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
Dinan: springs, Konis, rear sway bar;
Ground Control camber plates, Brake ducts opened, Evolve tune


2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop
Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Michelin PSS street/Nitto NT-01 time trials

2007 328i wagon Silver/gray
2006 330i E90 ZSP 6MT Electric Red/Black
1975 CanAm 125MX2
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post #94 of 127 Old 13th January 2017, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
From my meager memory recall, I think Dinan used to advertise that their springs were ~20% stiffer than stock. However, the stock springs are progressive (at least the rear ones are), and the Dinan springs are linear, so it's difficult to compare rates. I would need to pull out my notes from the spring/Koni install, but I think they dropped my car about 3/4" to 7/8" from stock. I don't have any plans for the M5 right now to change anything else as I just don't drive the car much currently. I've pondered selling it, but it's such a rare and special car, at the moment, I'm holding...planning on detailing the undercarriage actually is my main plan.
Thanks Chuck. I think 3/4"-7/8" would be plenty for me. I don't necessarily want slammed and I would go with BCs if I wanted to budget that much for struts right now, but I don't. $308 from Dinan for a set of springs isn't bad at all. I was very comfortable riding in your car with the Dinans, so I think I'd be fine with that. What settings do you have the front and rear Konis set at? I hate removing the rear struts, so I want to get it set at something I know off the bat and not have to redo it again. I need to pull my parcel shelf soon anyways to run some wires, so probably do that at the same time.

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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post #95 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
Thanks Chuck. I think 3/4"-7/8" would be plenty for me. I don't necessarily want slammed and I would go with BCs if I wanted to budget that much for struts right now, but I don't. $308 from Dinan for a set of springs isn't bad at all. I was very comfortable riding in your car with the Dinans, so I think I'd be fine with that. What settings do you have the front and rear Konis set at? I hate removing the rear struts, so I want to get it set at something I know off the bat and not have to redo it again. I need to pull my parcel shelf soon anyways to run some wires, so probably do that at the same time.
I initially installed the rear Konis at 3/4 turns from full soft based on a strong recommendation from a formerly active and very vocal board member here. It was a huge mistake. Dinan recommends 1.25 turns from full soft on the rear, so after having it too soft for a few months, I reset the rears to 1.25 turns, and it was exactly what was needed. Up front they recommend 1 turn from full soft I recall, but I've had mine set at 1.5 turns for ages now. Of course this brings up the subject once again as to whether Dinan has custom valving done on their Konis for the M5 (I have the Konis from Dinan). Someone (me) needs to check the part numbers on the Dinan Konis some time to confirm they are unique or just regular Koni valving.

Current stable:

2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
Dinan: springs, Konis, rear sway bar;
Ground Control camber plates, Brake ducts opened, Evolve tune


2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop
Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Michelin PSS street/Nitto NT-01 time trials

2007 328i wagon Silver/gray
2006 330i E90 ZSP 6MT Electric Red/Black
1975 CanAm 125MX2
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post #96 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I initially installed the rear Konis at 3/4 turns from full soft based on a strong recommendation from a formerly active and very vocal board member here. It was a huge mistake. Dinan recommends 1.25 turns from full soft on the rear, so after having it too soft for a few months, I reset the rears to 1.25 turns, and it was exactly what was needed. Up front they recommend 1 turn from full soft I recall, but I've had mine set at 1.5 turns for ages now. Of course this brings up the subject once again as to whether Dinan has custom valving done on their Konis for the M5 (I have the Konis from Dinan). Someone (me) needs to check the part numbers on the Dinan Konis some time to confirm they are unique or just regular Koni valving.
So, after ordering the Dinan springs and then telling Brian about it, we had a discussion and it resulted in me canceling the order and deciding to hold off until I can get proper coilovers. I was only going to do the Dinan springs if they would be good and I would be able to keep my Konis, but the impression I got from him was that I would not be happy in the long run. I have ridden in both his M5 and M5T with Ground Controls and have been super impressed by the ride quality, so I'll probably just save my money and get those down the road. I might be convinced to get the BCs if enough people are impressed by them and preferably if I can ride in someone's car that has them. I have ridden in a 540it that has BCs with a custom built air-ride system and it was pretty phenomenal, but I'm not going to that extreme, especially since he doesn't drive his on the track or anything, which I would be doing on occasion. If anyone in the Charlotte or Raleigh area has BC coilovers and wants to let me ride with them, I would greatly appreciate it.I would just hope I could get something for my Konis, but I'm not expecting too much.

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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post #97 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 01:56 AM
CSBM5
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So, after ordering the Dinan springs and then telling Brian about it, we had a discussion and it resulted in me canceling the order and deciding to hold off until I can get proper coilovers. I was only going to do the Dinan springs if they would be good and I would be able to keep my Konis, but the impression I got from him was that I would not be happy in the long run. I have ridden in both his M5 and M5T with Ground Controls and have been super impressed by the ride quality, so I'll probably just save my money and get those down the road. I might be convinced to get the BCs if enough people are impressed by them and preferably if I can ride in someone's car that has them. I have ridden in a 540it that has BCs with a custom built air-ride system and it was pretty phenomenal, but I'm not going to that extreme, especially since he doesn't drive his on the track or anything, which I would be doing on occasion. If anyone in the Charlotte or Raleigh area has BC coilovers and wants to let me ride with them, I would greatly appreciate it.I would just hope I could get something for my Konis, but I'm not expecting too much.
lol, see, that's why I was saying if I had to do it over again, I'd go with GC coilovers and pick a spring rate much stiffer than the Dinan springs. I would not hesitate to run 550 lbs/in up front and 325 lbs/in in the rear for example. However, I would much prefer to use an MCS struts versus Koni.

Here's an example of why -- back in 2006 in the middle of the rollercoaster at VIR on R-comps at the limit using Dinan springs:
Attached Thumbnails
TARH906 - 02384 (Custom).JPG  


Current stable:

2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
Dinan: springs, Konis, rear sway bar;
Ground Control camber plates, Brake ducts opened, Evolve tune


2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop
Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Michelin PSS street/Nitto NT-01 time trials

2007 328i wagon Silver/gray
2006 330i E90 ZSP 6MT Electric Red/Black
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Last edited by CSBM5; 14th January 2017 at 01:57 AM.
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post #98 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
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lol, see, that's why I was saying if I had to do it over again, I'd go with GC coilovers and pick a spring rate much stiffer than the Dinan springs. I would not hesitate to run 550 lbs/in up front and 325 lbs/in in the rear for example. However, I would much prefer to use an MCS struts versus Koni.

Here's an example of why -- back in 2006 in the middle of the rollercoaster at VIR on R-comps at the limit using Dinan springs:
What is MCS?



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-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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post #99 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 01:59 AM
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What is MCS?
Motion Control Suspension ? MCS Website

Current stable:

2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
Dinan: springs, Konis, rear sway bar;
Ground Control camber plates, Brake ducts opened, Evolve tune


2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop
Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Michelin PSS street/Nitto NT-01 time trials

2007 328i wagon Silver/gray
2006 330i E90 ZSP 6MT Electric Red/Black
1975 CanAm 125MX2
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post #100 of 127 Old 14th January 2017, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, that's a bit out of my price range. I just don't need that. All I wanted was to lower my car a bit and keep it comfortable.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

-Paul
2003 "M5" - S62/420g swap, M5 diff, M5 driveshaft, M5 brakes, M5 Traction Bars, Eibach Sway Bars, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Custom Exhaust,
BMW NBT Retrofit, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-Xenon Retrofit, M5 Extended Leather Interior Swap, APEX PS-7s, e60 Hubs, Koni Sports
Coming Soon - M5 Bumpers
530i 6-speed swap build thread

2003 530it6 - M54b30/S6S-420g swap, 3.15 540it diff, e60 SSK, VMR VB2 19" Wheels, M5 Gauge Cluster, Hella G4 Bi-xenon Retrofit, NBT Retrofit, Koni Sports, 540i Brakes

2001 749i6 - Retired and being parted out - M5Board Build Log
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