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Rear subframe front differential mount failure 144k

11K views 59 replies 13 participants last post by  TMcNasty 
#1 ·
Have owned car since 2008 81k miles. No track days. No smoky burnouts. No donuts. This happened turning from one residential street to another. Probably 10-15mph. In talks with Clemster about a reinforced used unit, but my mechanic "has a guy" that welds aluminum. He's going to have him come take a look at it first. Curious...has anyone here successfully repaired one of these once it's failed?
This took out the rear 1/2 of the driveshaft even at that low speed. I'll keep you guys posted.







 
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#3 ·
Are you implying other people have suffered nice failures on this part? :smile
 
#4 ·
Welder-Smelder. A little JB weld epoxy and you'll be golden. :grin

FWIW, unless the material is so twisted you can't re-establish the correct position of the bushing, there really is no reason that one couldn't be welded up and reinforced. It would be easier and quicker to start with one that isn't broken and add the reinforcement plates to box that one in.
 
#7 ·
Can't reuse that, especially with aluminum. If you weld and reinforce that, it's prone to breaking again.

Definitely start with a new/used one and reinforce that. I really think these things crack due to age and not driving style. I've seen original ones in fine condition on abused cars and broken ones on cars that see 3,000miles per year. So I think it's a age/weather thing
 
#15 ·
Well even at that low speed the back 1/2 of the driveshaft did contact the exhaust (or something) and is a goner accd. to my guy.
 
#16 ·
Unknown. The whole assembly was in front of me when I took those pics, but I didn't think to check any bushings. I can/will if they haven't replaced them with my new parts already.
 
#12 ·
I had the same thing happen about 2 months ago. Similarly, I just also moved off from a stoplight and was going ~10 mph when I heard a bang followed by the sound of the driveshaft rubbing against the tunnel. The car had 124K miles and subframe & diff bushings were in ok shape at the time but the rear wishbones were shot (boots were damaged). I ended up going with a reinforced unit from Clemster and as a few people have mentioned already, I would recommend that option rather than repairing and reinforcing an already damage subframe.
 
#13 ·
I reinforced mine in-car. Just dropped the diff, built a plate for the mount, and had a welder buddy go at it. So for those wondering, you don't need to drop the entire subframe and disassemble it if the guy welding is good enough with overhead positions.
 
#17 ·
And independently of you guys I've been growing more wary of a repair vs. a Clemster unit. For all I know my guys aluminum guy is looking at it right now saying "no effin' way." That reminds me I need to call them and see if this dude has stopped by yet. I almost hope he rejects the work, but even if he doesn't I think I may pull the plug on it. The problem w/ this break is that it takes out other parts along with it. Combine that with the labor and doing this once is a fair bit of loot. 2x is absurb plus the risk of the high speed failure.
I think I'm rating the fear of this breaking right next to the rod bearing paranoia we all have. ;)
 
#18 ·
Hmmm...well I just called my shop. I spoke to the owners wife Friday around this same time of day and she told me the aluminum guy hadn't come yet and wouldn't until "early next week." Well I'm calling them 2:30pm EST today (they're closed all weekend) and somehow between then and now my subframe went out to his guy and has already been repaired and returned. Man talk about a day late and $1 short. So I guess I get to be the 1st mofo here that's used a repaired subframe. Wish my a** luck! I think I need it. I'm going over to look at it in the a.m. I'll snap some pics. Will bring the iPad Air this time so the pics don't suck.


Anyhoo, my guy is very confident that this will never fail again. He spoke quite highly of his welder and said flat out if the guy had any reservations at all he would have rejected the job. He has been working with the guy forever and he has in fact called items unfixable before. Apparently welding aluminum is this gents full-time job not a hobby. He did say that the guy forced them to strip everything off the frame so that he could dip it. I assume the dipping is to remove all contamination/oxidation prior to being worked on. There's also two reinforcing plates on there now front and back. I sure hope the repair itself looks as good as it sounded so far over the phone. If not I'll be the fella that learns the hard lesson for y'all.


Thanks so far fellas. All input greatly appreciated.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Man they're quick. Went over to take pics of the welded subframe and the car is all but back together from yesterday afternoon when they got it back.

 
#20 ·
Now the sad part is the rear half of the driveshaft hit the exhaust during the failure and the balancing weight got whacked off. Also the rubber boot tore. BMW quoted them $1,200 for a new shaft. Both halves. They don't/wont sell just one part of it.

Suggestions? They think they can get it rebalanced, but they do need that rubber boot back there. Can that be replaced by itself? Remanufactured shaft? Used from Clemster?
 
#22 ·
Not this time. I have a ton of driveshafts but failed CV boots are the general rule.

I do have a freshly reinforced subframe if anyone is looking to upgrade. :wink
 
#26 · (Edited)
OK so I'm ordering a new CV joint for the rear half of my driveshaft from FCPeuro. (Pretty difficult to find someone who has this part in stock. Kudos to them.) The rubber boot on it was torn during the subframe failure and cannot be ordered separately. These are the parts I think I need so far from looking at RealOEM.com and some older threads here at M5board.com:

BMW Drive Shaft CV Joint - Genuine BMW 26111229099 #16 (included #13 and #14)
BMW CV Joint Gasket - Genuine BMW 26111229504 #17
BMW Muffler Clamp (D=34mm) - Genuine BMW 26117542264 #15
BMW Drive Shaft Snap Ring (26.5x1.5mm) - Genuine BMW 33211225648 #18

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=DE93-USA-04-2003-E39-BMW-M5&diagId=26_0188
Is that all that's needed? My shop is going to have my shaft rebalanced locally.

I also see a tube of lubricant listed:
BMW Lubricant Olistamoly 2 Ln 584 Lo (100G) - Genuine BMW 83190447919 #21

however FCPeuro doesn't have it in stock. Most places don't seem to and even my local BMW dealer doesn't have it and actually never has had it in stock. Is standard CV joint grease acceptable?
 
#27 ·
Standard CV grease is acceptable. Nothing special. Make sure they know not to compress the CV during install. Doing so pushes the grease out and can cause premature failure. I have first hand experience. There is a tech doc that mentions this. I blocked mine up with tape and wood during install so it wouldn't be pressed in. I think the bolts and/or nuts are supposed to be replaced too, but I didn't do that last time.
 
#28 ·
There is a tech doc that mentions this.

Hey gzig5 I have your old CV joint thread from 3/2009 up right now in a separate tab. :)


I presume you mean SI 260196038 as the tech doc. Does anyone have a copy of this SI they could post?
Would this SI be on the TIS CD? That I have at home. Thanks.
<table id="partsList" data-partlink="/bmw/enUS/part?id=DE93-USA-04-2003-E39-BMW-M5&mg=26&sg=10&diagId=26_0188&q="><tbody><tr class="r0 pos16 posselect"><td></td><td></td></tr></tbody></table>
 
#29 ·
The CV joint part at FCPeuro says this down below it:


Comes with (6) 26111227022 knurled bolts, (3) 26111227142 reinforcements, (1) 26111229079 flat metal gasket


When looking at realoem.com it looks like part #13 (which comes with the CV joint) has a gasket 26111229079. The diagram lists a gasket also as part #17.
They both say VL-107. Are these two different part #'s in fact the same gasket? FCPeuro sells #17 separately. I have it added in my cart, but if the CV assembly already includes it I can save myself a whopping $8.


Anyone know? Thanks.
 
#30 ·
I don't remember getting a gasket with the CV either time I ordered them. I think I ordered #17 separately each time. You are right, the bolts and plates come with the CV, but I think the #19 nuts are seperate. I reused mine and it hasn't failed.....yet.

I don't know if that is the tech doc or not. I can't find it on my computer yet. There is mention not to compress the CV in the Russian TIS translation. I'll keep looking.

<table class="t" style="margin-left: 0px; width: 800px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0; margin: 0; width: 353px;" align="left" valign="top">
</td><td style="padding: 0; margin: 0; width: 447px;" align="left" valign="top"> Installation: Add grease.
Grease
See. Materials Delivery Service BMW Parts.
Pull up to the stop constant velocity joint (1).
Clean the sealing surface of the constant velocity joint flange and drive pinion.
Replace the gasket (2).
Use new nuts.
Push the drive shaft with an extended constant velocity joints on the flange drive pinion.
A warning!
You can not shoot back constant velocity joint during assembly, as lubricant can squeeze the O-ring and leakproof joint.
Alternately, any tightening two opposite nuts equally make constant velocity joint in the flange of the drive pinion.
Then tighten the remaining nuts.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
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#31 · (Edited)
Here is a pic of what I did for the CV install last year. I pulled the cv out as far as it would go, made some wood spacers that would prevent it from telescoping in and taped in place, and then filled with grease. I think I used about 1 1/2 tubes. The one I installed in 2009 failed because the grease got pushed out into the nose of the diff and it ran dry. I made extra sure this time that it would stay where it is needed.

Here is a link to my more recent drive shaft thread. Explains why I went overboard to keep the grease in.
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/464561-rear-end-rattle-2.html
 

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#32 · (Edited)
Thank you gzig5! Did you get your driveshaft rebalanced after this? Mine needs rebalancing since a spot-welded weight that's on it got knocked off. I was just curious if a standard r/r like you did requires a rebalancing process.
 
#33 ·
I did not re-balance. The one nugget of info I got from the dealer on the repair history of my car was the driveshaft was changed at around 77,000 miles. I put in a new CV three months after getting the car (ultimately unneeded as the problem was broken gear teeth in the diff) at about 104,000 and again last summer at 133,000 or so. Maybe I got lucky but I never had any vibration that I could notice in either case. The CV by it's design seems to be pretty concentric so it isn't too surprising it didn't need it.

By the way I think this is the link to the bulletin regarding not compressing the CV. It discusses displacing the seal, but I know from how mine failed that some amount of grease can get pushed out and if it isn't full, you are screwed. I could of sworn I saw something else that discussed displacing the grease, but I'm done looking for it.
BMW Workshop Manuals > 5 Series E39 M5 (S62) SAL > 1 Service Information > 26 Propeller Shaft > 1 SI Installation Instructions For Constant Velocity Joint E39 E38 E31

Root address
BMW Workshop Manuals
 
#34 ·
By the way I think this is the link to the bulletin regarding not compressing the CV.

By the way...you are the man! Will print out a copy for my shop owner.
 
#35 ·
It would be nice if the CV install docs from BMW actually stated the amount of grease that goes in here. Realoem.com shows 1 tube of 100G of grease needed. That's 3.5oz to you and me. I dunno...that kinda seems like...not quite enough. ;)
 
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